Pop, I was tinkering and had run through all the powder and bullet combinations I had $$ for at the time, and had a 2 oz box of Marine-Tex laying around and said what the heck, I'll try anything! Then I noticed that the recoil lug was floating about .125" in front of the stock, and got really hopeful......for naught.

All, I was really hoping to get a lighter load in 180 grain. The 165's were tearing up too much meat, and harder bullets like partitions and fail safes didn't shoot nearly as well, nor drop the deer nearly as fast. I don't consider it a humane kill if it runs 300-500 yards before dropping when shot through the chest.

I consider 1.5MOA minimum accuracy for me. I figure that I double that by shooting in the field, not off a concrete bench and bags of lead shot. Now the low end of deer I see in management hunts is only 100 lbs on the hoof, so the range limitations become real short, at least in my mind.

Maybe I'll try the 200 grain Accubond. Ain't recoil a bitch!

-CDH

<cross posted on gunsmithing, as it 'fits' in both forums>

Like many here, I am a bit obsessive with my reloading. I have the sinking feeling that I have gotten as good of results as I am going to, but refuse to admit defeat. With that in mind, how accurate should I be able to tune a stock Model 70 in 300WSM? It sort of pisses me off that I can't seem to beat the factory 180 grain loads!

Details: 180 grain Nosler BT and Hornady SST
Hodgden H414 and 4831SC, max down to 10 grains below max
Winchester brass and mag primers
RCBS dies
Tried full length, partial full length, and neck sizing
Seated from .005" into rifling (3.005") back to 2.85"
Used only loads with under .005" runout

Bedded recoil lug back to magazine box plus rear of action, floated bbl., otherwise it is a factory rifle.

Am I beating a dead horse? I can get 165 grainers to group under 1" easily with 55 GR. Varget and 54 Gr. H4895, 4 out of 5 groups hit .75"..... 150 grain NBT's go only slightly worse. 180 gr. will hit 3 in .5, and 2 are always opening it up to 1.5" to 2". No pattern to which 2 either. Factory 180 grain Fail Safe loads group 1.25" to .5" every time.

Opinions? Suggestions? Thanks!

-CH

I feel your pain. I have a great custom M70 in .280rem. It is an honest 1MOA rifle w/ most handloads & the avg. for factory loads is 1.6MOA. This rifle just loves Speers Nitrex/160grGS load, often breaking the .7MOA. I can't get the 160grGS to break 1MOA w/ handloads. Go figure.

That caliber is not a target rifle, it's a hunting rifle.

What's the smallest critter you expect to shoot, and what's the longest range you expect to shoot it at? Pronghorn (small critter), at 300 yards (decently long shot) probably requires about a 2-3 MOA gun with very good marksmanship. Your'e a lot better than that.

Guns are never done. Some are just ready to hunt with. If they were done, we wouldn't have a hobby.

Why did you bed the rifle/float the barrel? Did it not shoot for you as a stock gun?

You never know when a load will pop up. I have been shooting my Weatherby ULW in 3006 for 2 weeks and the best groups were about an inch. And those were with starting loads. I was shootimg today at noon and the temp was -2 degrees F and was getting the usual 1.25 to 1.75 groups when I loaded up 3 loads into my rifle that were an after thought when loading last night. My glasses were starting to fog from the cold and the heat waves from the barrel were making it hard to see the bullet holes at 100 yards. I fired off those 3 loads and could only see one of the holes and it was about 3 inches higher than what I was shooting and I just continued with the rest of my loads. I had only loaded those 3 up to see what they would chrony. When I walked down to get my target which is a large box with 15 different spots on it, I found that the one hole was actually 3 and I had shot a .25 group with that load. I had to run home and load up 9 more and go back to shoot them to see if it was for real. Result? .30 .50 and another .25 and this was with 3 different powder increments with .5 gr intervals. All also hit into the same poi. When you get the right load combo for your gun, this is a common occurence. My 270 wsm and my 300 win mag all shot well when the right powder bullet combo was found. I also loaded some with different manufacture bullets and the groups opened right up. For whatever reason, I seem to have my best luck with Sierra Prohunters, although my 270 wsm liked Interbonds. Don't get married to just a certain set of components, there is usually a certain combo that a particular gun likes, the fun part for me is finding it. By the way, the best powder by far in my wsm was IMR 7828, the 06 loves H4350, and the 300 win only likes RL22.

First of all I only shot 3 shot groups out of my big game rifles. I guess that could change if I was ever in a place that I could shoot big game like I do p dogs. Unless the rifle is for longer range hunting like out past 300 yards a 1.5 to 2 in rifle is just find. (one can get spoiled fast when one is used to shooting varmit rifles that all shoot under .5) But when it comes right down to it deer ect are a whole lot bigger then a p dog. I do have some big game rifle that well do under .5 a 06 308 and 300wm but to get that I have to shoot match bullets. Yea I would like all my rifles to be .5 rifles but in real life it well not happen unless I want to spend a lot more money replaceing barrels and working up loads.

CDH, in a case like this I would ask myself what is the factory doing different then I am on this particular load?! Two things come to mind! Neck preparation and neck tention! I would try a Lee factory crimp die,for uniform (equal) bullet release presure, and keep thinking along these lines!

i agree with ELB on trying to work with crimping and neck tension. try it and see if you get improvements. i saw a guy try every powder and load comdo and then tried neck tension thru crimping and now shoots under an inch with loads that did not shoot before. how clean is your bore/chamber? i clean after every 6-10 shots. just my routine. i had loads worked up i felt had to work based on other similar loads. i had changed that day to a spray foam to cut copper. i failed to clean my chamber good enough after using the foam. the loads shot all over the place. i found the problem later on further cleaning but did not associate it with the load shooting bad. i had three rounds left and 4 weeks later i was shooting up left over rounds. i had since went back to my usual cleaning routine because established loads were not even shooting. the only change was the foam and moisture being left in the chamber. i shot the rounds and they printed .23 at 100 yards. look for things outside of your loads. sometimes you'll find things that will suprise you as i did. the moisture was causing pressures to build in the chamber that caused my loads to be off. i blamed the foam but it was my method of using it. another point i found just recently was my 7mm ultra mag which is my best shooter went all to pieces at the range. i was upset and was headed to texas for a whitetail hunt and my baby had laid down on me. i switched back to factory ammo that shot well in my gun but not as my reloads. note i did kill a mule deer at 447 with these factory loads, so what was said in this post about being good enough for hunting is true. back to my original story, my reloads not shooting. i had adjusted my die for some other bullet combos and had let the set screw get loose that holds the locking ring. as i unscrewed the die from the press i got the die out of its setting and when i returned some days later to prepare loads for texas i did not get the die set back right. i was adding a small amt. of crimp and did not realize it. i was in a hurry. took me 2 weeks of messing with the gun to realize what i had done. thought it was my gun or the loads. it was my die. try and look for these. in the end it may be a sub par barrel.