Second question concerning load development. I was doing some load development for a .300 Win Mag yesterday using H4831 and 165gr Sierra Soft Point BT.

Has anyone ever found they had two sweet spots during load development? The first load of 72.5gr of H4831 the bullets were almost touching at about an inch or so. Granted the barrel was cool at the onset. I almost quit right there...but I came to the range early thinking I might need the time...so I shot the rest. As I moved up the group widened out to about two inches at 73.5grains of powder. As the powder load increased it quickly narrowed back down to about an inch or so using 75 grains of powder. Was I lucky? Has this ever happened to you? or was it a fluke? I'm just trying to figure things out.

I shot 4831 in my 300 Win for a long time. It was accurate and gave reasonable accuracy. When RL-25 came out I found it to give better accuracy and velocity. I shoot 165gr Acccubonds in my 300 with 82.5gr of RL-25 with Fed 215M primers.

With load development, repeatability is paramount. Give it a couple of days. Go back out and see if your rifle shoots as well a second time. Pay lots of attention to that first cold barrel shot.

Yes, this is a common finding when working up loads.
Most rifles have more than 1 accuracy "node" - which just means that the accuracy varies with the vibrations produced by the varying amounts of powder used as one is working up loads.

This just means that there can be several points in the load development process where the bullet exits the barrel when the barrel is in a particular position that results in a reduced MOA.

It is up to the reloader to decide what he is after:

- the most accurate load regardless of velocity.

- reasonable velocity and good accuracy.

- the highest velocity and disregard the accuracy.

I am sure that there will be others that will tell you that you can have both extreme velocity and extreme accuracy in the same rifle, but I have found this is not the norm and certainly not worth the time and effort for a hunting rifle.

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Go back out and see if your rifle shoots as well a second time.

Absolutely! You cannot tell anything from 1 3 shot group. If it was a 5 shot group, try to reproduce it.
Peter.

Actually they were 5 shot groups and the best accuracy was with the lowest powder charge and the highest powder charge according to the reloading book. But I will go back out and see if it shoots as well the second time.

Renegade I have several 300WMs. I have never tried H4831, but I am surprised that there is just 2 1/2 grains between min and max with that powder.
Peter.

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Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

Go back out and see if your rifle shoots as well a second time.

Absolutely! You cannot tell anything from 1 3 shot group. If it was a 5 shot group, try to reproduce it.
Peter.

and taking the average of atleast 5 5shot groups would be even better.

Nice post "toadhead"! And it sounds like some fine shooting from RenegadeRN. You are paying attention to notice "both" Harmonic Clusters.
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The average of 1000 groups of 1000 shots would be even better , but the barrel would be worthless long before you got that far. There is a point where you have to accept what the Target is telling you and like it or change components. Always seems to be contention on "how many" groups and shots/group that is.

When I do the occasional Blind Comparison Test between Neck Sizing vs P-FLRing, I normally use 18 or 20 shots in each group, but ONLY for that specific test.

For my Hunting Loads, 3-shot groups serve me well to verify a Load - with barrel cleaning between groups. I have never taken 4, 5, 6, 7 or more shots at Game in a row, so that wouldn't tell me anything relative to what I'm interested in.

Or to put it another way, I could not care less how a barrel shoots when it is that HOT. That is not intended as a slam on people who enjoy frying their barrels. If that is what they enjoy, that is what they should do.