Deke, this has been my experience with 180 gr. bullets and Re22 in my 30-06 AI with a 26" barrel.

R22..60.5 ..180 Nosler NBT 2820 fps
R22..61.5..180 Nosler NBT 2896
R22..62.0 ..180 Sierra Mat BT 2902
R22..62.5..180 Sierra Mat BT 2950/2931
R22..63.0..180 Sierra Mat BT 2978/2944
R22..63.5 ..180 Sierra Mat BT 2986
R22..64.0..180 Sierra Mat BT 3037/3026
R22..65.0 ..180 Sierra Mat BT 3097
R22..65.5 ..180 Sierra Mat BT 3036
R22..66.0 ..180 Sierra Mat BT 3068/3041
R22..67.0..180 Nosler NBT 3141 Too Hot!!

You can see that by 67.0 grs. or Re22 I'm over MAX! I'm surprised I didn't blow a primer. I would consider 66.0 grs Re22 maximum.

Also, please note that the Nosler Reloading Manual has a 30-06 AI load of 62 grs. of R22 with 180 Nosler bullets (24" barrel) going 2985 fps, which must be ~65,000 psi.

The fact that you need to load 67 grs. of Re22 to get 2948 fps, suggests that your chamber/barrel combination is "loose" relative to Nosler's and my chamber/barrel combination. That may explain why you're not getting the expected velocities with Re25 - that is, you're not reaching pressure and your case-head measurements are on the high side. Thus, you may benefit by trying a bit faster burning, high load-density powders, such as Vn560 and IMR7828ssc. You should be able to exceed 3000 fps with 180 gr. bullets and with safety.

What do you think?

Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

AIU,

Keep in mind that you have 2" more barrel, ever though we are both talking 180gr, I am also using a different bullet (mono), but interesting ideas. Let me think about them.

Deke.

Deke, I've compared 24" to 26" barrels in guns chambered for 280, and you get about 50 fps more for the additional two inches. This is what QL predicts as well. Thus, even with a 24" barrel, in my gun, I'd be cruisin' at ~3100 fps with 67 grs. of Re22 behind a 180 NBT - but still ~72,000 psi - WAY TOO HOT!! Regards, AIU

AIU,

Explain what you mean by "loose", are you saying that my chamber barrel combo expands quicker/farther, and if so, doesn't it mean that my rifle just isn't as strong as others (it is an Interarms MarkX commercial 98 Mauser in very good condition, not sure of manuf date), are you indicating that there may be a problem with my rifle ? You may be talking about somthing I have little/no knowledge of, so you might want to be elementary in your explanation. The 3000fps sounds great, but I don't want to buy $40 more powder unless I am pretty certain I will get the additional 50fps. Have you found the 560 and 7828 to be more or less accurate?

Deke.

Deke, when you read the reloading manuals, they always advise working-up loads from below maximum, because maximum for one gun is not maximum for another. My comments regards loose vs. tight chamber/barrel combination have nothing to do with strength, but with chamber/barrel dimensions. For example, you're able to use 67 grs. of Re22 with 180 gr. bullets, while keeping your pressure at ~62,000 psi. The same amt. in my gun produces ~72,000 psi; hence, my chamber/barrel combo is "tighter" (smaller volumed) than your 30 Gibbs chamber/barrel combo - that is, "looser" (larger volumed). Your gun may have a longer throat than mine, or your barrel diameter may be slightly larger than mine - I don't know, but it doesn't matter. In fact, your gun should be able to slightly out perform my gun, because you can get more powder behind the bullet. The bottomline, is that you may benefit from a slightly faster high-energy powder, such as Vn560 or IMR7828ssc - both can be loaded to very high load density. To keep expenses down, I'd suggest trying Vn560. To me, it's a hobby, I find very enjoyable and, thus, worth the expense. But, we are all different. Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

AIU,

Now I am with you. Never heard of volume refered to as looser or tighter, but I understand now. Trust me, I love this hobby, I just have limited time and $ and I am approaching the limits (for now) on this bit of load development. Will think about the Vn560 and thanks again for all your help.

Deke.

Deke, glad to be of so some possible help. Let me know, if you decide to try the Vn560. I like the stuff. Regards and safe/happy shooting, AIU

Well Vn560 is not to be had in the Denver area as I know it. Went ahead and tried the IMR7828ssc, but it came short of the RL22. I stopped .0004" short of my max PR @ 67gr with about 200fps to go to match the RL22 vel of 2948fps with the 180XLCBT. Velocities flattened out @ 2750fps w/66.0/66.5/67.0gr charges even though PR measurements continued to increase. Will stick with the RL22 unless someone starts carrying MRP or n560 on a regular basis (don't want to buy a powder that is too hard or impossible to find).

Deke.

Deke, 2948 fps is great velocity, and if you're operating within safe PSI limits, why change. Re22 has been a great performer for many reloaders, and a few more fps is not likely worth it.

I was smart enough to latch on to a good supply of Norma MRP when it was easy to get. I use it in so many chamberings, including my 30 Gibbs. It is easy to reach 3000 in the Gibbs with MRP without exceeding safe pressures. MRP gives me the higest velocities at safe pressures in the 257 Roberts, the 6mm, the 6.5x55, the 7x57, the 270 Win, the 30-06 and several others, including the 338 Win Mag. I find MRP to be slightly different than RL22. Not a great deal, but enought to see on the graph and on the target. Regards, Eagleye.

Eagleye, I have MRP and MRP-2, and I've found MRP to be very close to Re22, and MRP-2 to be very close to Re25. In fact, I think MRP and Re22 are the same powders with differences explained by lot-to-lot variations. Both are made in Europe, probably by the same company. Moreover, I think that Re19, Re22, and Re25 are essentially the same powders with a bit more of the burn-rate retardant added to each respectively. Finally, I find Vn560 very close to R22 and Retumbo close to Re25 and MRP-2. Have you tried any of these slower burning powders?