I have learned over the years that if you don't know the answer to a question, find someone who does and let them explain it to before you screw something up. Well, here I am.

I want to reload ammo for my Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt caliber. I have questions regarding using 255 grain RNFP cast lead bullets WITHOUT gas checks. I am not planning to hunt with these, just shoot mildly.

From my understanding, I need to keep the velocities of these bullets under 1000fps to keep excessive leading down in the barrel. CORRECT???

I am wanting to use a WC-820 military surplus powder, simply because I have a boat load of it.

Can anyone help me with any information along these lines, also with any detailed reloading info about the WC-820 in the 45-Colt application?

Thank you in advance!!!

I use WC820 MY LOT only as if it were AA9. I have had great success with it in 357, 44 Mag and a few rifle aplications. I have had tied up guns with less than full power loads and heavy for caliber bullets in the 44 special. Based on that I would be OK with using it at 1200fps and over inthe 45 colt and would look at a smaller charge say 6 gr Red dot or 7 gr Green Dot for the 255 @ 1000 fps.

I bought a bunch of WC820 some years back from Jeff Barlett (www.gibrass.com). He told that for all "practical" purposes it (the lot he had at the time) was very close to H110. He recomended using H110 data reduced 10% for starting loads. That's what I do and it works quite well.

Regarding barrel leading in 45 Colt revolvers... There is no need to limit velocities to 1000 fps. Barrel leading is affected by several factors. The higher velocity (pressure) the harder the bullet should be. Bullets cast from straight wheel weights unquenched work fine up to about 1000/1100 fps. Quenched wheel cast bullets can be loaded faster. Hard cast lead bullets can be loaded to 1400 fps or more without leading issues. Lubricant is important and bullet shape is important. A flat base bullet will usually be better than a bevel base. I am not personally familiar with WC820, but if it is, as stated in another post, similar to H110 it is likely more suitable for high velocity loads than for under 1000 fps. For "mid-range" 45 Colt loads Unique and 2400 are both good choices and quite versatile.

I purchased 32 pounds of the virgin WC820 powder from Pats Reloading, and it was described as being approximately 10% hotter than H110. I have reloaded a few hundred 44-Mag using 240 JHP/XTP bullets and I reload them hot. I worked my way all the way up to a fuzz beyond book max. I have loaded using 24.0 grains of the H110 and estimate my velocities between 1500 and 1575 fps. Believe me it packs a punch, and is very accurate!

I have loaded several hundred 30-Carbine with the WC820 as well. Works great in those two applications.

Regarding the 45-Colt bullets, I purchased 1K pieces from Mike @ Mastercast Bullets (mastercastbullets.com). They are hardened and stated to be fine up to 1400fps without gas checks. I wanted someone's first-hand opinion on that. My main goal in posting this is to get some actual loading information (including velocities) using 255gr RNFP cast bullets in the 45-Colt using the WC820 powder. (I know not all batches are the same).

Thank you for the information posted.

I've been shooting the 45 Colt since the 'Dirty Harry' run on 44 mags. I couldn't find a 44 mag that I could afford.
All of my S&W model 25s have been tuned, barrel lapped, etc.
Once the barrel has been lapped I've found that .454 diameter bullets, usually 255 grain, wheel weight alloy, lubed with LBT, over 8.5 grains of Unique does everything I want.
I try to clean my S&Ws every 1,000 rounds even if they don't need it. Leading is not and never has been an issue, since I lapped the forcing cone of the barrel and sized my bullets to .454.
The only leading I've gotten has been when I used factory ammo or commercial bullets.

Jim

Sounds as if you already have experience with the powder. If there is no written data available, you may have to extrapolate and experiment. One thought would be to contact Pats Reloading and see what information they may have.

I reload 45 colt alot, you dont need gas checks, dont worry about it. I shoot cast bullets from Extreme Bullets and also have a rcbs keith style mold that my buddy uses to cast bullets for me with wheel weight lead

Are you going to cast these bullets yourself? (You might as well! Casting is where you can actually save a bit of money and of course saving money is why we all reload )

Velocity is only one factor that affects leading. Also, leading is not a big issue IMHO unless you let it get totally out of hand anyway.

So I'd suggest to just experiment and see how it turns out. There is a good chance you'll be able to cast, load, and shoot these bullets without any other undue drama.

Currently I am not planning to cast my bullets, but as you know, that can change at any time.

I believe my next venture is to purchase a chronograph. As of now I am going strictly off published book values and posted information from fellow reloaders.

I guess I will have to just jump in and start the experiments. Hmmm, another reason to sling some lead!! I like it!!

Thank you folks....
David

I use Oregon Laser Cast 255 grainers in mine..and I don't use gas checks.. MV is like 900 fps..

I have a Vaquero in 45 Colt with a race job done by "the fastest gun that ever lived." The suggested load for 250 gr. cast bullets is 5.3 gr. of Titegroup. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

There isn't a practicle vel limit w/ lead bullets. Leading is aproduct of bullet fit more than anything else. Slug the bore, slug each cyl throat. The cyl throats need to match the groove dia as close as possible. Lately Ruger is infamous for tight cyl throats. My RBH had 0.450" throats & a 0.451" groove dia. So the bullet were getting swaged down to 0.450" before entering the bbl. This causes leading just in front of the bbl throat.
I opened the throats to 0.451" & use bulelts sized to 0.452". I get little to no leading using even soft lead/tin SWCHP @ 1100fps. Accuracy also improved.
Sorry, I have no exp w/ that surplus powder, but if it is like AA#9, you can use data for the 44mag & be safe in a old model Vaquero. The newer Vaquero should not exceed Colt SAA pressure to be safe.

I guess there are two separate issues here, the speed of your WC-820 and the issue of velocity/leading.

First there are at least three distinctly different speeds of WC 820 out there. I have mine labeled, 820 (H110), 820M (AA#9), and 820F(HS-7).

The H110 version is very old and was tested beside some H110 to confirm load data.

The HS-7 version was limited and apparently was sold as it was to fast to load Carbine ammo. The 820M medium is what has been sold for the recent past and is AA#9 sorta speed.

The first jug of the # 9 speed version gave me fits with failure to fire/squibs with WLPs. I tried another jug and have been using MagTech primers with no problems so far. Primer or powder , I need to test that and see if the old jug will work with the MagTech's.

I am out of WLPs so will be loading Magtechs for at least the next 5 thousand rounds.

5000 isn't all that much when I use them in pistol and cast projie loads for some rifle rounds.

Oh and if I haven't bored ya to stop reading, if the cast lead projies fit and are soft enough and have decent lube leading will not be an issue.

Clean the barrel VERY WELL if you have been shooting jacketed bullets before switching over to cast.