I have just received some .423 / 400 grain bullets for my 404 Jeffery, as well as some VihtaVuori N150 propellant. I know some of you out there have up to the date computers with super programs, and some even have first hand experience loading this caliber. I would love to receive any info with respect to N150 and any of the following bullets: Barnes 400 grain TSX, Swift A-Frame 400 grains, Barnes Banded Solids 400 grains.

I have used 77 grs N150 with Woodleigh 400 grs SP, never acctually chronographed the load, but I shot six or seven head with the load. I also loaded Woodleighs 347 grs bullet with the same 77 grs, and that chronoed 742 m/s.

boha

Quickload 3.3 suggests the following data for the 404J and Vith. N150:

400 gr. Barnes band. solids, min. 68.5 - max. 73.5 gr.

400 gr. Barnes TSX, min. 66.5 - max. 71.5 gr.

400 gr. Swift A-frame, min. 67 - max. 72 gr.

Of course it's only a guess. N150 seems to be a good choice. Hope it helps.

I can send you the reports generated in Quickload for all 3 bullets using VihtaVuori N150 if the email address you posted with AR is current. They are in a PDF format.

I would approach this information cautiously.

400 gr. Barnes TSX, min. 66.5 - max. 71.5 gr. This Max seems a little high compared to the other loads.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
....400 gr. Barnes TSX, min. 66.5 - max. 71.5 gr. This Max seems a little high compared to the other loads.

I don't understand the reasons of your statement; all 3 max. loads are SUPPOSED to give almost the same pressure, about 3165 bar/46000 psi.
For instance, I've checked the load suggested by Boha (Woodleigh 400 gr. SP - N150 77 gr.) that seems to me a little hot and SUPPOSED to give 3260 bar/47290 psi.

...nor I understand your caution claim; this is a reloading forum, there are PLENTY of suggested loads and Wink is certainly a wise guy that asked for software-generated loads; furthermore I stated in bold that those data are a guess. I really trust Quickload and I posted only after a cross-check with Boha suggested loads.

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
....400 gr. Barnes TSX, min. 66.5 - max. 71.5 gr. This Max seems a little high compared to the other loads.

I don't understand the reasons of your statement; all 3 max. loads are SUPPOSED to give almost the same pressure, about 3165 bar/46000 psi.
For instance, I've checked the load suggested by Boha (Woodleigh 400 gr. SP - N150 77 gr.) that seems to me a little hot and SUPPOSED to give 3260 bar/47290 psi.

Sorry, you are right. I plugged in the wrong bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
...nor I understand your caution claim; this is a reloading forum, there are PLENTY of suggested loads and Wink is certainly a wise guy that asked for software-generated loads; furthermore I stated in bold that those data are a guess. I really trust Quickload and I posted only after a cross-check with Boha suggested loads.

I always say you need approach this information cautiously when giving out data generated by Quickload. As you say, it’s a guess. I for one don’t share the same trust as you do in “guessing programsâ€.

As you point out there is a difference between the Quickload predictions and Boha (Woodleigh 400 gr. SP - N150 77 gr.) which I would assume was a hands on testing of live ammunition.

As far as Wink’s post, I didn’t take it that he just wanted information from a computer program. He was looking for information period. As you may have found, there isn’t much information out there on the 404 Jeffery specifically dealing with the use of N150 and Barnes and Swift 400-gr. Bullets.

I would be interested if the new Barnes reloading manual lists N150 in their 404 loading data.

Sorry if my post offended you in any way.

Wildboar,

I do think the information you gave is safe. Wink has a good starting point with that data.

No offence taken Mick

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
No offence taken Mick

This is not information you asked for, and will probably never be useful to you. Still one never can tell....

From personal experience loading the .404-J with 400 gr. bullets and cordite, 60 grs of cordite is NOT a good load! It gives pressure signs that I do not want, in all my various makes of brass, including but not limited to Norma, ICI, and RWS. In my current rifle (a Musgrave bolt gun SN 404-1), 55.0 grains is a good load with cordite.

Thank you all for the info. Alberta Canuck, I didn't know one could still obtain Cordite.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I can send you the reports generated in Quickload for all 3 bullets using VihtaVuori N150 if the email address you posted with AR is current. They are in a PDF format.

I would approach this information cautiously.

400 gr. Barnes TSX, min. 66.5 - max. 71.5 gr. This Max seems a little high compared to the other loads.

Yes, please send and address is current.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
Thank you all for the info. Alberta Canuck, I didn't know one could still obtain Cordite.

Wink- It isn't easy, that's why I said you would likely never have any use for the info.

I got mine by finding and buying a full case of ICI .416 Rigby ammo, all of which had been rendered useless and almost valueless by season-cracking of the necks.

So, I pulled the bullets and sold them, (I have never wanted a .416 to keep for myself so had no use for them.) Then I salvaged the cordite. Those gelatinized long strands are quite tough and really a form of plastic, so they don't break in the processes of salvaging or reloading.

Loading the ammo was relatively easy....consisted of using a balance beam scale to weigh out the right amount of cordite "sticks" for each cartridge case, then dropping them lengthwise into the cases. With 60 grains, the last two or three strands had to be forced into the case with my thumb, but that wasn't difficult.

Turns out the data suggesting 60 grains which I had read was wrong anyway. 55 grains gives better accuracy, freedom from adverse pressure signs, about 99%+ fills the case(s), and the sticks/strands all just fall into place.

I did it, because I wanted to see how the old time load performed. It shot very well, but has so much nitroglycerine content that throat erosion can be alarmingly quick. My original Jeffery Mauser proved that to me. So now I use more modern European (Swedish, Czech, & German) "Nobel" powders instead.

I'm pretty disappointed with the results of my testing for the Barnes 400 grain TSX and VihtaVuori N150 powder. The TSX takes up an enormous amount of space in the case when seated to COAL 3.528" (which is right at the crimping groove). I use Norma brass and Fed215M primers, 24" Kreiger barrel on a Win Model 70.

With a Quickload prediction of 2188fps for 71.5 grains I only get 2080, or 100 fps less. I started moving up the scale. The best I can get before flattening primers is 2175 fps for 75.0 grains of N150. You can't get much more in the case than 75.5 grains of N150 in any event. With the full case, primer flattening load of 75.5 grains I still only get 2196fps. Back to the drawing board.

Then you could try the N550; you should gain 30-40 m/s. With the TSX 400 gr. you could start at 72 gr. and 76.5 should be max. I'm VERY conservative when I post QL estimations, so, I'm not surprised at all when I see that you could exceed the suggested loads.

Of course it's only a guess.

Wink, I have only used VV150 w/ the 340gr-350gr bullets & accuracy is very good w/ vel. pushing 2600fps. For the 380gr-400gr, I would go to VV160. I have tried a few loads under 380grNFs & accuracy is very good, right @ 1moa, & getting 2250fps from my 23" PacNor is quite easy. For the Barnes 400gr solid, I have only loaded RL19 or IMR4831, but VV160 would work. Try 81gr & work up to 84gr. You may have to use a drop tube.

Fredj, while I respect your post, since it comes from first hand experiences, I would point out that the N160 seems to be too slow for the 404J; at 81 gr. the load density should be about 106% while at 84 gr. about 110% . Furthermore, about 10% of the powder will probably burn out of the muzzle....

Of course it's only a guess

With a little bit of vibrating I can get 78.5 grains, maybe 79, of N160 into the case with the Barnes TSX 400 grain bullet at the 3.528" COAL. This, in my opinion, won't be enough to get much velocity out of that particular bullet. I am beginning to suspect that with this particular bullet I'm not going to get much more than 2175fps due to the amount of space it takes up in the case. I can get almost 2300fps with the 400 grain Swift A-Frame. I notice that the Barnes reloading pages gives some very nice velocities with the TSX over N550 powder but I haven't tried it yet.

Norma's loading data only lists one powder and load for any 400gr bullet including the barnes x and solid bullet 96.4 gr of MRP2 for min and max load. All speeds are in the 2300's. This powder is way sloooooower than any listed and seems like it would be a great African low pressure load? I have some 404j Norma brass and some MRP2. I put 96.4gr in and it comes up to the bottom of the shoulder none in the neck. Seems about perfect just waitng on my rifle to be built.

Its not exacly what you asked for (different bullet), but a Norwegian relaoding manual, Ladeboken 6ed. has the following 404 jeff. data with N150 (they also tested alot of other VV/Norma powders):

Gun: M98 w/Douglas barrel, 24"
Bullet: 400gr Woodleigh SP
OAL: 88.7 mm


N150
78.0gr 2226fps
80.0gr 2307fps

The manual also stated that N150 was their prefered powder. But bear in mind american powders were not tested. (not available here)

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
Fredj, while I respect your post, since it comes from first hand experiences, I would point out that the N160 seems to be too slow for the 404J; at 81 gr. the load density should be about 106% while at 84 gr. about 110% . Furthermore, about 10% of the powder will probably burn out of the muzzle....

Of course it's only a guess

My actual loading & shooting exp. w/ VV160 says it isn't so. The burn rate is right there w/ IMR4831 & RL19, both work beautifully w/ near full cases & 380gr-400gr bullets. Maybe w/ the long Barnes, but using 380grNFs (pretty long) I have had good results w/ just barely compressing the powder @ 84gr, 100% density. If you are using Quickload, it isn't always 100% correct. Like drop charts, nothing beats actually pulling the trigger to find out what is true. Burn rate chart:
http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

I don't want to argue with you Fredj, mine is only a guess and while I know that Quickload is not 100% correct, it's more accurate than many here would admit.