BTH,..I must be a prodigy I have gotten .5moa from even ruger M77's with pencil barrels. I have yet to see a rem700 sendero (for example) go over 1moa with even crappy ammo,..and .5moa is the expectation with the preferred factory load,..right from the box. I have done it with 4 in a row, purchased 8 yrs apart from first to last.

First,..as long as you have chosen a pill that is compatable with your twist rate,..then choose a powder compatable with the bullet weight. Use a manual that gives a precise charge with each powder, listing it's most accurate charge with each powder. I prefer the nosler manual becuase it also lists the most accurate powder tested as well. Work your charges in .5gr increments,..shoot slowly and deliberately and allow the barrel to cool in between strings. You should find the sweet spot rather quickly. Also,..100yds is useless,..go to at least 200yds and 300yds if you can manage it. That distance seems to seperate the best loads from the OK loads quite well.

I shoot from a mechanical rest with rear bags or a 15" Bull bag,..so my rest is VERY stable. A good rest,..good glass, and practice pay off in spades. No shooter who shoots only occasionaly will be able to pull in tight groups,..even with one of my rifles

You may wish to be sure you are not sizing the brass down too far with FL dies,..try partial length sizing (back die off 1/2 turn or better). Also,..old powders are a no-no. Be sure you have good consistent loads,.or no amount of testing will determine anything.

JustC -



I agree with you. ANY jacketed-bullet BR rifle that won't consistently hold in the .2's is a long-goner. Personally, I have 4 CAST BULLET BR RIFLES which will hold in the .3's easily, and one with which it is not too big a trick to hold in the .2's using a 196 gr. 30-caliber Eagan MX-4-30A linotype bullet with Blue Angel lube and Hornady gas checks, ahead of 52-1/4 "clicks" of VV-N135 and either Winchester or Federal small rifle primers, from .30 BR cases fire-formed from Lapua 6 BR brass. (I originally posted this as "from Lapua .22 Russian brass", but that was a brain slip...that's what I make my .30 PPC cases from...and that gun will also hold easily in the .3's)



While it is true there are not a lot of hunting rifles that will shoot anywhere near 1/2" 5-shot groups reliably at 100 yards, it is also true that there essentially aren't ANY genuine jacketed-bullet benchrest rifles that won't average in the .2's or lower.



I have shot 5-shot 100-yard groups from my best cast bullet benchrest gun that go in the mid-to-high .0's, and hold an aggregate record for cast-bullet 10-SHOT 100-yard groups in a registered match at .467". And, one must remember, cast bullet groups generally run from 2-to-3 times as large as jacketed bullet groups fired under the same conditions.



Expecting 0.5" 100-yard groups from a factory rifle without substantial mods is probably expecting a little too much, but NOBODY I know who is a competitive jacketed-bullet BR shooter would accept a bench gun that averaged groups as big as .3" at 100 yards.



Best wishes,



Alberta

I am wondering how you guys develop loads. Here is what I have done: I choose a bullet and have experimented with several brands of powders using my manuals to find charges. I then shoot groups trying to determine the best powder and charge. I didn't get great results from any of the rifles I've tried so I tried more bullets, bought more powder so the selection is better and repeated the steps. Is this right?

Should I choose a powder and then experiment with bullets? I am trying to achieve 1/2" or less groups with factory rifles and so far, I'm having little success.

Allow me to context my previous statment to clarify any disallusions. My consistent rifles, other than sendero's, VSSF's, VS's, etc all wear match grade barrels. After proper break-in and load work,...5moa will bring me in last place in a match,..so that barrel is for sale cheap. Now keep in mind,..anything under .750" at the muzzle is a pencil barrel to me. And anything but a full rested position is no way to test loads or a rifle,..or even a shooter's ability for that matter.

I am thrilled to keep a hunting rifle at .600" +/-,..but a custom barrel or a heavy barrel factory rig with a good stock??? NO WAY. If it won't go a consistent .5moa,..it also is for sale.

I am a dyed in the wool 700rem fan,..but I have 2 other rifles I have kept. A R77 MKII in 30-06 and a Browning A-bolt in 7mm-08. Both will hold .5moa and that is the reason they are NOT for sale. All others will find new homes. My requirements are higher than most,..so my opinion is to be taken,..as I said,..in context. I think those are two of the only thin tubes in the safe come to think of it

Just to add another perspective: Modern premium factory fodder is hard to beat. I've been reloading for over 30 years, and when I first started, most any load you put together with care would beat factory ammo. No so, today. I have a couple of rifles that I don't reload for, because factory fodder gives me all the accuracy that I'M capable of... These comments apply to hunting loads, I'm not into serious paper punching.