I recently purchased a Savage m12 BVSS in 6.5x284 (long action). I've done some load development with 140gr Berger vlds and am very pleased. Two loads, 51gr of RL-22 and 52.5gr RL-22 are shooting at/under .3 and.5 inch@100. By the book the 52.5gr load is max, but there is no showing of any signs of pressure. I don't think I need to push it any harder as this should be near 2,925-2,975fps, and thats just great for me. I'm seating the 140 VLD's 0.001 from the lands. the throat on the rifle is pretty long as the length of the load is 2.500 to the ogive. This means the bullet is only in the neck ~0.149, which is not much. I've tried loads with them seated deeper into the brass/neck but they didn't group very well. I don't think I'm going to have trouble with recoil shifting bullets in the neck when they're in the magazinge as recoil is very light. Anyone think I might have trouble here?

Secondly, I want to try 140gr Amaxs. I always here folks talking about Bergers and jamming them to the lands or loading just a few thousands off the lands. Any advice on the Amaxs and distance the lands?
By my rough measuring the bearing surface on the bergers is ~0.500 and the bearing surface on the Amax is ~0.575. So if proximity to the lands is not as important, I might be able to seat them further into the neck.

I intend to use the rifle mostly for a steel safari target type match (300-800 yrd type shooting), but would like to use it for long range deer and antelope hunting as well (therefor, my interest in the amount of bullet sitting in the neck).

Lastly, without the 140gr berger loads showing any signs of pressure at a book max load and the bullet not touching the lands, would I be pushing a safety factor by starting load development with the 140 amaxs closer to max if they were not touching the lands as well?
Thanks!

anytime you change bullet, start with lower powder charge. that is prudent. Doesn't matter if it is same weight.

I would not use Amax on game. Ever seen what the SST does? And it is FOR hunting. I'd stick with the Berger.

I add powder in my loads until pressure signs tell me to stop regardless of what a publication says.

The following powders are considered temp stable and if you want to do long range, I'd suggest testing these as well:

H100V, H1000, Retumbo, H4831SC, H4350, Ramshot Magnum.

While I love Reloder powders and have yet to see any problems with changes in POI in my rifles from east to west and 50 degree + temp differences, many experienced loaders/hunters here on AR have. That said, I suppose it is possible for you to have long range problems with those powders if hunting conditions change substantially.

I have not tried the Amax bullets in my 12F, so I can't measure the bearing surface to be sure. If the bearing surface is really that much more, I would not start off with the Berger load level in the Amax.

I only use mine for target shooting and prairie dogs, not for deer. I would not use either of those bullets you mentioned for big game. Berger does make hunting bullets. Try some of those for game. What's your idea of "long range deer and antelope"?

For deer I think I would try the Nosler ballistic tips, and accubonds, and possibly the Swift sirrocco II's for long range. Match bullets are not intended for game, and no accounting is given to jacket/core separation or bullet deformation and expansion in the animal. Match bullets are only designed for one thing, to fly through the air as consistently as possible and arrive on target at the same spot.

I have not tried RL-22 in mine. I use H4831sc. But if you're getting .3's at 100, then it seems to be working for you. What are you getting at 500? Then take it to 1K and try it also.

I would not push those Berger 140's much over 3000 fps, say 3050 at the absolute max, regardless on whether you see any pressure signs at that point or not. That bullet seems to fly better at 3000, and other than that it's just your barrel life you're cutting short. I went with H4831sc, as it's "supposed" to be easier on barrel heat/throat erosion.

Here's an interesting link to info from guys that know more about all this than I do:

http://www.6mmbr.com/sixfive284.html

Doc & Slowpoke- Thanks for the feedback. Doc- I will definetly keep on eye the temp change and stability with the RL22. I'm shooting now in the mid 70s and by hunting season the temps could be in the 20s. You're right- I should short cut just because one 140 load didn't show pressure- I should know better. Thanks

Slowpoke- You and others are enlightening me about the Amax for hunting purposes- so I don't think I'm going to go that route. The bergers are the hunting VLD. My "long range limit" on deer and lopes would be inside 500yds tops. Thats long for me in hunting. Im definetely going to try H4831sc- I see it's very popular. Yet to go out 500 or 1000k with groups- maybe tomorrow. Thanks Again

m2m, if you look at many of the benchrest sites, you will see the 2 top powders are H4831SC and H4350 in most every instance for just about every shooter.

The Berger VLD is just fine for hunting. I've killed game with it and all were inside of 200 yards. Does fine in soft tissue and bone. To 500 yards, no worries. Nothing wrong with Btip or AB either. But the VLD will bring you great joy when you find the load.

I had a long phone conversation with a gentlemen from WY who has been bench shooting for many decades. His powder of choice for his 6.5s is Ramshot Magnum because it is ball powder, throws perfectly for him, and it temp stable and produces roughly 3000 fps with 140 VLDs which he uses exclusively for hunting.

I have a new 6.5x284 I have yet to shoot. My top powder choices will be H4831SC, H1000, and Magnum. Bullet will be 140 Berger VLD. If for whatever reason I don't get consistent .5 MOA, I will try H100V.

I have 200 Lapua brass, new, and 200 Norma brass new. Lapua first.

Doc, I just picked up some H4831SC, we'll see where I get with that. So far I like it very much. I'm using Lapua brass, CCI benchrest primers and the 140 bergers. My only concern still is my seating depth. Unless I can find a spot the bergers don't mind jumping, I guess I'll have to try it. Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by metal2meat:
Doc, I just picked up some H4831SC, we'll see where I get with that. So far I like it very much. I'm using Lapua brass, CCI benchrest primers and the 140 bergers. My only concern still is my seating depth. Unless I can find a spot the bergers don't mind jumping, I guess I'll have to try it. Thanks again.

I would certainly try to work with the rifle as is, but consider sending it to a smith and have them rechamber it. I will take a dummy round, as an example, with the bullet seated to fit the mag and the bullet is seated, as in the case of the 6.5x284, where the end of the bearing surface is flush with the end of the case neck where it opens to the shoulder. I'll request the smith to chamber the rifle such that this dummy round gets me somewhere b/w 5 and 15 thousandths off the lands.

Of course it depends on their reamer as well and how they put the lead angle, but this seems to work well. That gives you some seating depth play room where there is still plenty of case neck contacting the bearing surface of the bullet.

Personally, I think H4831SC is THE top choice for this caliber and bullet weight. I don't know what other rifles you load for but it would be a very wise move, IMO, to go and buy another pound or 2 of the same powder with the same lot #.

20 years ago, I used to make the mistake of working up loads, and just shooting a lot to get trigger time in, then find that I am suddenly very low on powder. I buy more, and find I have to tweak charges again and retest.

Amen to the rechamber idea. I'll play with it a little more and see what happens. Considering the short life, maybe it wont be long before i do just that. I have room in the barrel for a setback.
I got a couple cans of the powder, going to make some test loads tonight. If they do well, I'll pick up a few more pounds.

contact dave bruno: davebrunorifles@windstream.net

if you decide to rechamber. just my recommendation.