The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Amatuer question: Can you neck size with full length dies?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Amatuer question: Can you neck size with full length dies? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
I know this is an amatuerish question from someone who has been reloading 32 years but can I adjust my RCBS Full Length re-size dies to Neck size? I've read the RCBS directions, no help. I have only Full Length re-sized my entire loading career for my hunting rifles. What say you experts? Thanks | ||
|
| one of us |
The redding die instructions tell you how to do it. With your press ram all the way up your screw you die in so it touches your shell holder for a full length size that bumps the shoulder back. For a neck size without bumping the shoulder back, unscrew the die about a 1/2 turn away from touching the shell holder. | |||
|
| one of us |
Technically, no. You can only partial full length resize. | |||
|
One of Us |
All I ever buy are FL resize dies and if I'm only wanting to size the necks and not push the shoulder back I leave a thread or a half of air between the die and shell holder. This is what I call partial sizing.....it gets the neck right but preserves the headspace to a minimum. Both answers above are correct IMO! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
|
One of Us |
Snellstrom You can set your FL die so that it neck sizes about 3/4ths of the neck and does not resize the case body. Screw it in until it reaches the shell holder and then back it up about 3/4 turn. Somewhere around that point is where the die will begin to size the case body and you don't want that. When it starts to size the case body it will start pushing the shoulder forward and may cause difficult chambering. If you don't have a Stoney Point Head and Shoulders Gauge you can find the point by repeatedly adjusting the die and chambering the case. When the bolt becomes harder to close, back the die up a little bit and you have set the die to size as much of the neck as possible without sizing the case body. I find myself wondering why anyone would neck size with a FL die when Lee makes the inexpensive easy to use Collet neck sizers.  ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
|
| one of us |
How inexpensive are 40 collet dies? | |||
|
| One of Us |
About $720.00 less than 40 RCBS FL Dies.  ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't but... Special NECK SIZING DIES I E-Mailed RCBS on December 12, 2004 and received the following response on December 15, 2004. From an old #8 Speer Reloading Manual. You and other equipment manufacturers sell special NECK SIZING dies. Does this still apply to your equipment? Neck Sizing is the term applied to the process of sizing only the neck of a case, with a special die which doesn’t touch the shoulder or body of the case. Neck sizing does eliminate excessive working of the case shoulder and body but, also, may size the neck off-center and leave the body of the case too large to chamber. A better way to reduce excessive working of the case body and shoulder metal is to use a full length sizing die but, use it so it only sizes partially. To do this, the full length sizing die is backed out of the tool so that the shoulder is not touched by the die. This preserves the important head and shoulder dimension and still sizes the neck normally. The body of the case centers the neck in the die and is sized enough to make chambering fairly easy in a bolt action. Back the die off at least 1/16th of an inch [About one complete turn.] Many shooters adjust their dies so that only half of the neck is sized. This leaves enough tension to hold the bullet securely for target or varment shooting The RCBS “Ask the Expert Forum’s response was: Yes, the necksizers only size the neck of the cases. And yes, there can be run-out after necksizing as there is nothing to support the base of the case - it just sizes the neck. AS FOR PARTIAL SIZING -- Many of our customers choose to do this - but, it is trial and error and sometimes the chamber v.s. die fit does not allow the reloader to partial size - they will not chamber afterwards. | |||
|
| one of us |
I'm not a fan of PFL (Partial Full Length) sizing. Alot of people seem to like it but in all reality it winds up being a near FL size except you leave out the critical part of pushing the shoulder back for better chambering. The only real advantage I see for the pfl is slightly longer brass life. (And that is debatable if you set your die to barely move the shoulder back in a FL situation.) The negative side I've seen is that I have not found it to be more accurate than fl sizing. As a matter of fact I find if there is bolt tension to close the bolt I usually get a different point of impact than FL sized brass. Also I would not hunt with pfl sized brass...the last thing I need is a chambering problem in poor weather. Since my hunting is going to be done with fl sized brass I feel my load development should be done the same. I can't see where you save any time with the PFL idea either as you need to lube the case the same as fl sizing. And, lastly...I'm not sure how good a continuous diet of "tensioned bolt closing" is going to be good for the lugs in your rifle. These are JMHO!! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Snell, the answer is, "It depends." Neck sizing, properly defined, only affects the neck. So we can if our dies and cartridge will allow it without touching and changing the case body. It works best with cartridges with a marked body taper, at least as much as a .270. Straighter cases, .308, etc. are more problematical. We only need to neck size the length of neck that will hold the bullet in the finished cartridge and that's frequently about one caliber or so deep. To see if it will work for you, do this experiment. Adjust your FL die out to size the right amount of neck for your finished load. Then coat a few unsized case bodies with something that will show any rubbing contact with the die. (I like to use a dark color "Dri-Wipe" erasable felt-tip marker, black or dark blue work well, but I have used lipstick a few times.) Run a marked case into the pre-set die and see if the die rubs color off the case body. If it doesn't, you're in good shape. If it does, you will need a dedicated neck die. | |||
|
| one of us |
No, no Had most of them before collet dies were invented.... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hey kraky I agree with your reloading techniques but have to disagree with your definitions PFLR.
To me PFLR is pushing the shoulder back very slightly so that there is contact between the case-head/bolt-face and the case-shoulder/chamber-shoulder but there is almost no "crush fit".
Full Length Resizing is when the shoulder is pushed back far enough so there is no contact at the shoulder. My PFLR'ed cases chamber easily with very slight contact at the shoulder and do not create a problem in the field. ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
|
| one of us |
Woods....I think we have the same definition of PFL vrs FL. To me PFl often leaves what I call a "slight crush fit" or any feeling of bolt tension when closing the bolt over and above headspaced ammo. I know you saw my debate with the guy over at the Long Range site. There is a post almost identical to this one now over at 24 hour campfire and I posted there that from my debates I was finding that the guys that do benchrest and long range seem to be preferring the slight tension on the bolt when closing. A pretty avid benchrester got back on that and said he knew of "no one that was doing that in the benchrest crowd" because it was felt that slight crush fit produces flyers. I guess a guy can chase his tail on the whole idea and it all comes down to personal preference but here is a link to the 24 hour discussion if anyone wants to take a look. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?C...&an=0&page=0#1226886 | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hey kraky It seems to me that he doesn't like to have a "tight fit". That "tight fit" he's describing is what happens after you neck size only for 3 or 4 times with a case and don't push the shoulder back at all
If you push the shoulder back .001" to .002" like he talks about then that is my definition of PFLR. It seems to me that is what he's talking about. In other words there is still contact between the case and the chamber at the shoulder but it is just touching and the case is not tight. I know you like to use FL dies with the expander balls but you ought to get a Lee Collet and Redding Body Die in one caliber and give it a shot. No lube in the neck and the Redding Body Die is extremely easy to use. Low runout naturally. You will find yourself replacing all your FL dies with that combination. ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
|
| one of us |
I've got some collets and body dies. It doesn't seem like I get consistant tension with the collet dies...especially as the brass gets older...it doesn't seem to keep the same tension as the first or second firing. (Have you ever run a caliper on the inside of a case mouth after collet sizing....you will probably measurements all over the place...at least on mine I do. And I don't see any time savings with the 2 step approach. I'm not saying anyone else shouldn't try them. I'm just saying that after playing around I just keep going back to the FL size. Maybe I shouldn't have gottem my FL dies in such good tune....then I'd be searching for ways (and reasons) to replace them. Seems like everytime I post my good luck someone comes back and tells me I'm an idiot...that it can't be working. (Not saying you are doing this....you and I do good on the debates!!) Remember the guy that was giving me heck over at "long range"? I loved his comment about how he doesn't reload for his friends but just by "adjusting seating depth on factory ammo" he had ALL HIS FRIENDS factory rifles shooting under 1/2moa!! I figure I can make better than factory with good technique and multiple combos of bullets and powder.....so I guess I must be capable of making 1/3moa ammo....damn...I'm a legend in my own mind!! | |||
|
| One of Us |
That's where a crimp with the LFCD comes in. A light to medium crimp and the neck tension becomes less important in the bullet release process
How do you do that? Must be a special caliper. My regular caliper doesn't do that well at all.
 I've learned some innovative stuff from you, makes me think (it hurts, but no pain no gain). Even learned a pile of stuff from HC (where is he, haven't heard from him lately)
Yeah, I saw that and said "WTF?" How do you adjust seating depth on a factory bullet that is crimped in place and seated deep to begin with? Still wondering about that. I think Chawlston is someone over there to pay attention to. ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
|
one of us |
if you reload with that setting, soon or later the rounds will not chamber. .005" maximum between shell holder and fl dies is a better place to start. | |||
|
| one of us |
I agree, but a shim between the fl die and shell holder (.005") can make the reload fit the chamber better. PFLR | |||
|
| one of us |
The clearance between the fl die and the shell holder is best when at .005" this is the difference on go and no go chamber measurements in some rifles. Not a good idea for semi autos, ok for bolts. If you can just feel the bold close with some friction, you have it right. Some times .005" is to much. | |||
|
| one of us |
"Experts" where, not me lolExperts here | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Amatuer question: Can you neck size with full length dies?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia