I must admit I have a preference for plastic tipped bullets of all kinds, I often see the tips of soft point type bullets get dinged from loading and unloading out of the gun and many times from just handling, any idea if a dinged soft point has much effect on accuracy??

I once lent one of my rifles to my hunting partner and throughout the hunt he ejected the same 4 cartridges unto the ground numerous times,as he unloaded.The molly had all come off and they looked roughed up.I took them to the range,added another round and shot the best 5 shot group at 200 yds I ever shot to this day.It was a small,one hole, five shot group.The rifle was a 300wm model 70.

Points are not supposed to be very critical. When mine get a bit ugly I just touch them up on a bit of emery paper. I've stuck with lead tips because they were more accurate than the B.Tips I tried.

This month I read in a collum in rifle or handloader or some other rag and they addressed this issue extensively......no amount of tip damage opened up any groups as I remember.

It was in Handloader. I read it too.
This guy buggered the hell out of the tips
and found no significant degradation in
accuracy. He also buggered the bullets
bases. This DID have a big impact on accuracy.

Basically, plastic tip bullets are an answer
to a non-problem.

But they look cool.



.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
This month I read in a collum in rifle or handloader or some other rag and they addressed this issue extensively......no amount of tip damage opened up any groups as I remember.

quote:

It was in Handloader. I read it too.
This guy buggered the hell out of the tips
and found no significant degradation in
accuracy.

Did they by any chance, do longer range tests? I have been given to believe that trajectory suffers with damaged lead tips and would like to know just how much. (All my bullets lead tips are damaged - I got them that way, cheaper, and they do seem to shoot just fine!)

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

It was in Handloader. I read it too.
This guy buggered the hell out of the tips
and found no significant degradation in
accuracy.

Did they by any chance, do longer range tests? I have been given to believe that trajectory suffers with damaged lead tips and would like to know just how much. (All my bullets lead tips are damaged - I got them that way, cheaper, and they do seem to shoot just fine!)

I've not noticed any real change in accuracy out to 300yds, farthest I have tested. A flattened nose would change the BC, past 300yds, it would have to affect accuracy to some degree.

This is a good thread, with great info being posted.
I recently pulled bullets using a kinetic puller, and the bullets were plastic tips. The tips got all buggered up, and some were bent over. Haven't shot any as I was worried about accuracy with them.

Thanks,

Don

frankford arsenal did these tests years ago and found the tips bunged up didn't affect, but anything messing up the base did

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Iusing a kinetic puller, and the bullets were plastic tips. The tips got all buggered up, and some were bent over.

Don

Yeah,a little plug of foam plastic in the bottom should stop that. And also once the bullets have moved out a bit steady up on the pounding. I bought some B.Tips second hand pulled with a collet thing. Should have looked closer. All were dinged around the ogive and shot terrible.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
frankford arsenal did these tests years ago and found the tips bunged up didn't affect, but anything messing up the base did

Agree completely with the first portion of Butch's post - inside 500yds or so. When shooting at longer distances, the Tip becomes a factor because it changes the Ballistic Coefficient slightly.

The Base(as Butch mentioned) can get you putting unexplainable Fliers out there at any reasonable distance, and up close too.

Best of luck to you.

I must say I feel a lot more comfortable using those flattened tipped bullets now!

(I have started working on a cast bullet mould with the sprew on the nose instead of the base, due to this kind of information - still early days, 'though).
P.S. Hot Core, my hornet is showing some seriously pleasing results. Even with those dinged bullet tips! (And rust damaged bore).

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
Yeah,a little plug of foam plastic in the bottom should stop that. And also once the bullets have moved out a bit steady up on the pounding. I bought some B.Tips second hand pulled with a collet thing. Should have looked closer. All were dinged around the ogive and shot terrible.

I'll put some foam at the bottom of the puller. Good advice.
Thanks,

Don

quote:

any idea if a dinged soft point has much effect on accuracy??

I used to have a Rem 760 .270 Win and the tips of soft point rounds in the magazine would get terribly "mooshed" from the recoil and I never noticed a lick of difference in accuracy.

IMO if the bullet was an accurate bullet in your gun when it was new then you can do a quite a bit of damage to it and not see any difference in "hunting accuracy".

Hey 303Guy, Good for you. Sometimes things that give the appearance that they will create a problem just don't work that way.

I haven't noticed any difference, but I haven't conducted a scientific test. I have never read anywhere that this can be a problem. I think it's not something someone should be concerned about.

Don,

Or just pull a Cotton Ball in half and drop it in the bottom of the bullet puller cavity.

I think the lead tips burn off pretty quickly after leaving the barrel anyway, don't they?

If you find it bothersome you can take one of those manual pencil sharpeners, (the kind that have what looks like a small razor blade in them), and insert the tip of the bullet while turning it. The damaged part of the bullet will be neatly shaved off, leaving a nice sharp tip. The amount of lead you will be removing is minimal, so it won't affect the weight of the bullet itself. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I think the lead tips burn off pretty quickly after leaving the barrel anyway, don't they?

Oh yeah. And then the lead core is syphoned out with the help of centrifugal force, hense the term "shell". That's all that's left.

This is the real reason for the popularity of the full metal jacket type bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I think the lead tips burn off pretty quickly after leaving the barrel anyway, don't they?

O.K. this has to be a funny....it is....isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by billt:
If you find it bothersome you can take one of those manual pencil sharpeners, (the kind that have what looks like a small razor blade in them), and insert the tip of the bullet while turning it. The damaged part of the bullet will be neatly shaved off, leaving a nice sharp tip. The amount of lead you will be removing is minimal, so it won't affect the weight of the bullet itself. Bill T.

I have heard this before but have you ever put one on a scale after doing this?

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I have heard this before but have you ever put one on a scale after doing this?

Only on a box of Winchester factory .375 H&H I purchased for a song at a gun show. There were a few tenths variations from cartridge to cartridge, but I don't know if it was powder, brass, bullet shavings, or a combination of all of the above. The rounds shot fine, and I couldn't determine enough inaccuracy for it to matter. Bill T.

Cowboy,
Some years ago I did some investigations on damage of the bullet tip.
In my .270 I shot eight handloadings with optimal bullet alignment and no sign of any tip damage in about 0.9 MOA.
Then I 'mistreated' the tips and bullets with a plyer, so the tips were bended and damaged and I pressed the bullets out of line. MOA rose to 1.24 MOA.
Not yet satisfied I loaded the bullets upside down, so the flat base was in front and the tip was within the brass. Eight shots, no keyholes, MOA was about 2.5.
So I think bad damaged tips will have a very slite difference (groups opening up) to no damage, upside downs will open up the groups quite a bit.
All loadings with CCI primers, 60 grains H 4831sc, Sierra Gamekings 130 grains and RWS brass.
Nice day,
Jan.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan:
so the tips were bended and damaged and I pressed the bullets out of line. MOA rose to 1.24 MOA.Jan.

Ummm, Maybe pressing the bullets out of line ruined the test results re. the points. We're not talking right angle point butchering here but magazine damage.

quote:

I think the lead tips burn off pretty quickly after leaving the barrel anyway, don't they?

This was discussed a while ago. I do not recall any conclusion being drawn. There is certainly enough energy in a bullet to melt off the tip but does it? Wouldn't plastic tips burn off faster? Or does this only apply to damaged tips that have protrusions into the air-flow path?

This is one of those issues that to me might be significant for benchrest type shooting but would have very little, if any relevance in the field.

I could sell you all some of my bullets. . . air cooled and guarenteed to still have lead tips for as far as you want to shoot'em. If not, bring 'em back for a replacement.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
I could sell you all some of my bullets. . . air cooled and guarenteed to still have lead tips for as far as you want to shoot'em. If not, bring 'em back for a replacement.

It does make a significant diff for the long range shooters. If I remember the ballistic coefficient dropped by flattening tips severely from about .450 to about .250. It wouldn't mean much at 300 yds. BUT with a 200 yd zero a 300 win mag a bullet sporting a .450 bc drops 67".....a bullet sporting a .250 bc drops 102"!

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
I must admit I have a preference for plastic tipped bullets of all kinds, I often see the tips of soft point type bullets get dinged from loading and unloading out of the gun and many times from just handling, any idea if a dinged soft point has much effect on accuracy??

In the November 2008 issue of Handloader magizine (should still be on the stands) there is an article that addresses this very question. On page 68 by Chub Eastman, Does it Matter?. Chub butchered up a bunch of bullets and tested them and found that some types of point damage didn’t make much difference to a standard hunting bullet. There’s more to his article then just that. Some of his other findings were more interesting to me.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Iusing a kinetic puller, and the bullets were plastic tips. The tips got all buggered up, and some were bent over.

Don

Yeah,a little plug of foam plastic in the bottom should stop that. And also once the bullets have moved out a bit steady up on the pounding. I bought some B.Tips second hand pulled with a collet thing. Should have looked closer. All were dinged around the ogive and shot terrible.

Sounds like somebody used the wrong collet or was a bit heavy handed, I have pulled many hundreds of rounds using a lee collet type puller, can't see any marks even with a reading glass, Steve.

Not talking about marks matey, without going and looking, about 4 good sized dents, like a prune. Heavy handed is it? maniac more like it.

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
I must admit I have a preference for plastic tipped bullets of all kinds, I often see the tips of soft point type bullets get dinged from loading and unloading out of the gun and many times from just handling, any idea if a dinged soft point has much effect on accuracy??

No, it doesn't. Maybe at a 1000 yds one may see a difference.

Now, just nick the heel of a bullet, and it's an entirely different story.....


Casey