Hey guys. I need some help here. I reloaded some 30-06 ammo with Win brass. after reloading, the cartridges will not chamber in my buddy's Tikka 695. Well, they chamber, but the bolt will not close. I re-checked OAL and the brass length and they are o.k. After looking at the reloaded brass and comparing it to once fired factory brass, it seems the shoulder area on the reloaded brass it not as defined as the factory once fired brass. the shoulder looks a little rounded. Do you think my problem is with the die or could I have screwed up the die setting to do this? The die is a hand-me-down old Lyman die that I got from my uncle. Any help on this one would definitely be appreciated.....

Sounds like the dies were not properly adjusted. A couple other possible causes may be a bullet seated out too far, not full length sizing or not trimming the fired case to its proper length.

If the shoulder appears abnormal then its probably a die adjustment, also you should know that if the shoulder was pushed back then that is VERY dangerous and that brass should be discarded.

thanks for the suggestions. The cases were full length resized, then trimmed. The bullets are not in contact with the lands. If the shoulder was pushed back what would it look like? Wouldn't it chamber anyway, but with excessive headspace?

should the fired case be trimmed or should the resized case be trimmed

Place one of the reloaded cartridges on a sheet of glass......

look real close at the shoulder area....you will probably see a small "hump" in the brass and daylight between the case adn the glass just behind it.

If you do, you have crunched the shoulder out during your reloading preocess....

If the brass has been full length resized, maybe the shoulder just needs a little bumped, adjust your resizer die a little, so when at the bottom of your stroke you just tap the shoulder of your brass. This will allow your bolt to close. This only requires your die a additional 1/4 of a turn then retighten it down, and try resizing, I bet this will cure your problem.

Thanks guys. If the shoulder needs to be bumped, could this be caused by adjusting the die when the brass was too long(before trimming)?

They're most likely not resized enough. When I adjust the dies, I put a mark from a felt tip pen from the case neck to the shoulder, this will tell you when it touches. If the cases weren't fired in this rifle, the problem is aggravated. On some cartridges, if the case neck isn't lubed well on the inside (especially .243) when the expander pulls back through it yanks the shoulder forward enough to make them hard to chamber. This doesn't seem possible, but it is, I've formed 7x57 brass from .257 Roberts new brass and not had enough lube and pulled the whole top of the case off just below the shoulder. On some rifles you'll have to adjust the die down to where you feel it cam over at the end of its stroke to adjust for the small amount the press springs while resizing.

Another possibility is crimping!
You didn't say, but, did you crimp these loads?
If so, maybe you could have "over-crimped" them.
This will make the shoulder flare out a little, which will not allow the cartrige to be chambered.
Chuck

it's too big somewhere...

mic the base and see

mic the shoulder and see

mic the length (doubt it)

what I think is that you have a case where the die was TOO LOW, and put a slight ring on the shoulder...

jeffe

Thanks for the help, fellers. I think after reading everyone's comments that I had the die adjusted too low or may not have had enough lube in the necks. I was REAL conservative with the rcbs case lube 2 in the necks. I am paranoid that I will use too much and contaminate the charge.

What do ya'll recommend for lubing necks, i.e. method, lube type, amount of lube, and application procedure

Can't help you on the reloads StikR, but are you still looking at selling that stock you have for the Sako L579? I replied on my other post but never heard from you. Send me a PM or email me with the details.

Do not put any lube inside the case unless your using Nickle Cases, then it will be a dry lube. But if your resizing the case just RCBS lube will work don't use alot of lube, put some 5 cases on your pad and roll them with the palm of your hand then take them to your press.

And get yourself a Sierra Reloading Manual.....step by step instructions, even bumping the case a little.

I think after reading this, Ak Bush Man has the best advice. Sounds to me your problem plain pure and simple is that you resized too much.

From experience born of screwing up a few things;

When you resize a case, take your first one, and after you resize it, chamber it in a rifle. See if it is tight or not. If it goes in but the bolt closes stiffly, then turn your die a quarter turn and try it again. Do this until your case goes in easily and then you have the rest of the brass already Die Adjusted.

As far as lubing the inside necks for resizing, I quit doing that. Usually I resize the brass with the decapping pen out. I do this because if I do get a stuck case, it is easier to get out without the decapping pin in.

If I do resize with the decapping pin in, then I take it out and put gun spray lube on the decapping pen and re install it. I find it easier than lubing the necks of each case. The neck and the pin are what need to be touching. Lubing one, is easier than lubing all of the case necks.

My preferred method is to resize my brass with the decapping pin removed. I then clean the brass in the tumbler with WALNUT media overnight and store it in the container for that caliber. I use plastic kitchen snap top tubs from Walmart that cost 98cents each.

When I am going to reload for that caliber, I use the necksizing die to pop out the old primer. The neck is adjusted back to proper size that was not done when I full length resized. I then use my camfer tool if I am loading flat base ( non boattail) bullets.

Dealing with stuck cases and the pain of removing them is what got me doing this, this way. I also like to full length size brass when I have some spare time and then store it.

When I am ready to load some for shooting, I have to deprime it, prime it, camfer and load it with powder and seat the bullet.

Yeah done in steps It make take more overall time, but It sure has eliminated a shitload of headaches.!!

Great Information from all, and I think a L.E. Wilson Headspace gauge would also help. Midway has em for 17.22.
"This is a one-piece, non-adjustable cylinder-type gauge for checking fired and resized cartridge cases for cone-to-head and overall length.
Used to compare cartridges against the minimum SAAMI chamber dimensions."
I use them for my two rifle calibers, and its easy to adjust the F/S reloading dies using the gauge to see if the shoulders are being pushed back too far, or the shoulders aren't being touched. Good tool, and for me, worth the 17+ bucks.

You want proper FL seating die instructions, here they are. Place the ram at full swing, screw the FL sizer die in until it is flush against the shell holder and lock in place. Cycle a once fired lubed case through the FLl sizer die and see if it chambers with little or no resistance. If the case does not chmaber smoothly then screw the FL sizer die in against the shell 1/16" more so the shoulder of the case is bumped back to factory specs. If this does not cure your problem then the die must be returned to the maker for replacement or repair. Most all FL die problems are a result of improper die adjustment.

Also make sure the shell holders and dies are of the same make to eliminate the chance of the shell holder being the problem. In some instances mix and match of shell holders and dies will result in improper case FL resizing.

I may get a blast from everyone here, but I use Hornady One Shot on all of my cases from .22 Hornet to .308 Norma Mag and 45-70 and haven't ever had any problems with a stuck case or stretched a case so that it wouldn't chamber.

Dennis

Most likely what is happening is that your bullet seating die is adjusted wrong. Most seating dies have a little ridge built into them that's designed to crimp the bullet into place. Unfortunately, most bullets nowadays don't come with cannelures or they're not in the right place for crimping. What happens is that when you seat the bullet the die attempts to crimp the case neck into the bullet. If there's no cannelure then it's not able to crimp and something has to give, which is usually the case right where the case body meets the shoulder. The shoulder will "buckle" a bit and form a small ridge, very hard to detect visually but easy to feel if you run your fingernail over it. It's just enough to cause hard or impossible chambering.

The fix for this is to back the seating die out of the press a turn or two so that the shell holder doesn't touch the bottom of the die when the ram is at the top of it's stroke, then re-adjust your bullet seating depth with the seating stem. If the shellholder won't touch the bottom of the die then the case isn't inserted fully into the die and it won't touch the crimping "lip" at the top of the die.

I know this because for about five years I loaded rounds for all my rifles and about one in ten gave me hard chambering. I pulled my hair out trying to figure it out and tried everything short of voodoo to get it to stop, nothing worked. One day when I was looking real hard over a round that wouldn't chamber and felt this bulge at the shoulder case that wasn't there on the other cases, a little investigation into it and it finally dawned on me what was happening. For the life of me I can't figure out why the die companies still manufacture dies with this stupid crimping feature, it causes so many problems like this. If you're going to crimp bullets the only decent way to do it is with the lee factory crimp die, there's no reason to have that stupid crimp feature built into a seating die but the majority of the makers have it on their standard dies.

stikR,
Just went through the same ordeal with a Win. Mod. 670 in .243 that i picked up. in my case my Forster F/L sizing die was not bumping the shoulder back enough to allow the bolt to close. if you set the sizing to touch the shell holder with the ram at it's highest travel, cases sized with this setting should cahmber in most rifles of that caliber. before you invest in a small base sizer die, which works the brass more than a regular sizing die and shortens the case life. take just a sized case with the sizing die adjusted to just touch the shell holder and try it in the sako action. if it will chamber but the bolt won't close turn the sizing die down in 1/16th of a turn increments, but do not go past 1/2 a turn beyond the sizing die touching the shell holder. you should be able to close the bolt before you reach the 1/2 turn. a short cut chamber and a tight chamber are two seperate issues. for a tight chamber you generaly have to use a small base sizer to correct the problem. HTH and good luck.
Rick

All of this commentary is very interesting. I've experienced the exact same problem before and it was solved IMMEDIATELY when I changed dies. Some are just made tighter than others. To really be on the safe side, do as Pecos45 suggests and try a small base die.

The thing to remember is that when brass is "virgin" it is actually smaller than once-fired brass resized in a small-base die. And it is much smaller than once-fired brass resized in many "normal" dies. If factory loads chamber and fire easily in your buddy's rifle, the problem is almost certainly that his chamber is on the tighter end of the spectrum.

Great info on this post. I learned alot as I often do reading here.

My problem is solved. I bought an RCBS FL die and sized some brass with a 1/4 turn past the touching point on the die and it now chambers fine. I'm not sure if it was the die or if I had the original old die mal-adjusted. I don't really care, I needed an excuse to buy a new die. I have several old Lyman dies that were passed down from my uncle and I am slowly replacing them with green stuff. Thanks again for all of the info.

StikR - Glad you're up and running again. Lyman never built great reloading dies to start with IMHO. I think replacing them for anything you seriously load for is a sound policy.