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I'm finally getting into relaoding rifle ammunition. I loaded shotshell ammunition for years but they are a world apart. I bought the press and dies and my next major purchase is for a powder measure/scale. I have been reading some negative reviews on the automatic powder dispensing/measuring units. I am seriously thinking of buying a beam scale. Can anyone offfer any advise or recommend a good unit? Thanks for all comments. Jim NRA member | ||
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Almost all of them are made by Ohaus.....except Hornady and Lee.....and BTW the Hornady beam scale is pretty good! The Ohaus is a fine product and from RCBS or Dillon or several others.... The only bad one is Lee's "safety" scale....IMO it sucks! If you want a powder measure then Hornady, RCBS, Redding, Lyman etc all make a pretty good one.....I have a Hornady and like it a lot! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I've used the same RCBS Uniflow and 10-10 scale for almost 40 years now. While I bought both the large and small inserts for the uniflow 99% of my loading is done with the small. A friend that I built a couple rifles for bought me the RCBS electronic measure/scale system. After a few months I gave it back to him. I never got it to work to my satisfaction. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Redding makes a good powder dump, the RCBS should be close to the same. If you ever load pistol and a flake powder like Unique, the Lyman 55 is much better. As the RR and Vapo said get one of the Ohaus scales and stay away from the Lee. It's pretty crude. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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Almost anyone's balance beam scale will work fine and be uncannily accurate. They are much more dependable than those electronic wonders that everybody just had to try, and after trying most savvy reloaders ditched them. There's nothing wrong with most balance beams, even the much older ones, that you might find on fleabay. Do look for one with magnetic dampening as the old oil dampened models take forever to settle down and you're forever spilling the oil reservoir. As far as powder measures, none of them work really great with a course stick powder like old 4831 or 4350, but most of them work fine with the "short cut" sticks and work perfectly with ball and flake powders. Redding probably makes the best (other than a couple of VERY expensive specialty models), but the RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, etc. will do fine. | |||
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Depends on whether you want to start out with a Chevy or a Rolls-Royce. Either car will do fine for the average daily driver, and the same is true in powder measures for shooters. For the average guy, the Chevy is probably better for a lot of reasons, chiefly as it leaves him money to eat, or shoot, with. If you want a Chevy (or perhaps a Buick) powder measure, get a Redding, Hornady, RCBS or one of the other well-established but not cheapo companies' products. If you want a Rolls Royce, get a Neil Jones measure or a Les Bruno, or one of the other modern "Culver" types. You can read about those on sites like BR.com. If you want an almost Rolls, and a better price, get a Harrell's with the roller bearings. It is sortta like a Bentley....just about the same quality as the RR, but laid back a bit on the marketing and probably a better bargain dollar-wise. As to powder scales, set up & operated properly either beam or electronic scales will work just fine. Try out some of your friends' equipment and get one of the ones you feel at home with. My opinion, of course. Others' mileage may vary a tad or even more. | |||
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I'm running a Pact Combo. I make all my rifle ammo on it. The only problem I've ran into is that I can't seat bullets and dispense powder at the same time. The vibration from the press disturbs the scale. Dispensed loads compare in weight on my RCBS 505 scale. Ammo shoots fine out to 600 yards. Scale weighs to the tenth of a grain, so 25.0 grains is 24.95 to 25.04. Takes about 45 minutes to dispense and pour 50 rounds. I haven't used the RCBS dispenser and trickler with the beam scale to load 50 rounds so I couldn't tell you how long it takes. A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work. | |||
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 I have a RCBS 50 something or other, a Lyman 1200 , a Redding that I'ved use since 1957. and a Lee I got for $15.00. Use dippers once in a while also. Unless there is a lot of one kind to be loaded the go to is the Lee.  I've gone through 2 electronic scales but have not wrecked the third. seldom is it used to measure powder. I have 2 Redding balances circa the 1950s. One is almost brand new; the other has been operational since 1957. I think treated right it will last forever.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Yeh, Roger, you reminded me...I should have posted that for BR matches I use my Jones measure, but these days for my range and hunting rifles, I almost exclusively use a $16 (wholesale) Lee "Perfect" powder measure. I have two Lymans, a Saeco, two Reddings, and a couple of automated electronic measures, one of which throws charges quite accurately to 1/20th of a grain. But I can throw a box of loads for my hunting rifle(s) with the Lee Perfect in the time it takes to set up and warm up the electronic ones, so I almost never use them any more unless I m loading several hundred rounds or more at a sitting. And for the bigger "stick" powders. I find the Lee MORE accurate than the Lymans, Reddings, etc. I think it is because the plastic "wipe" in it doesn't cut the kernals of the big powders. The pressure of the Lee wipe is adjustable by turning in or out the screw that holds the handle on, so one may have to adjust that to get best results from it, but you only have to adjust it once, if at all. Thanks for the reminder.  My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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My Redding will get the flake powders jammed between the rotating cylinder and the housing, which I am sure is due to manufacturing tolerances between the two. The Lyman does not. Not to mention the fact that the Lyman tends to adjust much easier for tenths of grain than the Redding with flake powders. I forgot to mention that "my" Lyman will grind the ball powders and then it becomes lodged between the rotating part and the housing. The Redding doesn't do that for the most part, only with Unique. They have their quirks. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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I think at least to start out, you'd be wise to buy a good balance beam scale. They work even when the electricity is off or not available. I have been using a Lyman 1200 for several years now but I keep a Ohaus 10-10 on the shelf "just in case". I also use it every so often to proof my Lyman and when I only want to load up a couple or three cartridges. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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For extruded powder there is nothing better then a JDS Quick Measure. It works extremely well with all types of powder http://www.precisionrifle.org/...DS-QuickMeasure.html ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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Thanks for asking our advice. The following are not opinions. They are facts. Whether your loading style makes them advantageous to you or not is for you to decide. Lee Precision's set of powder dippers are incapable of cutting individual granules of powder, stick or otherwise. They also never jam, maintenance is dead simple and they are very inexpensive. They never go out of adjustment, either (though adjusting them requires some patience and thought). The do require that you use consistent dipping technique and are slower than most other methods. My opinion is that the dippers are worth a try if you are not loading large quantities. And especially worth trying if you are interested in ultimate accuracy (whether you are of the volumetric school or weighing school of handloading). My opinion on scales is that a good balance beam scale is a "must-have". And a powder trickler. My favorite is my RCBS 10-10 for its ease of use. Accuracy among all my scales is not an issue. All are equally accurate and all agree with each other. Good luck. Lost Sheep | |||
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Thanks for all of the comments. They were a great help. I plan on buying a beam scale to start with along with a powder dispenser and a powder trickler. My intentions are not to load a high number of rounds..............may 20 to 40 over a weekend. I am looking to load for accuracy and consistency. Thanks again as everyone has offered a wealth of information. Jim NRA member | |||
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I would suggest NOT buying a trickler. They, like every other mechanical device, are built with tolerances. Tolerance "stack" can make them perform poorly with fine-grained powders, particularly flake powers or spherical (ball) powders. A little gadget which will work great and cost you absolutely nothing extra is a fired cartridge case with the used primer still in it, half to 3/4 full of whatever powder you are using. Just twirl it gently between your fingers with the mouth of the case over your scale pan and it will add just enough powder to each charge to bring the charges perfectly to where you want them. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Powder trickler is a device that dumps powder into a measuring pan, pretty much grain by grain. It's a threaded tube.  I have an RCBS. The body is alum. and I filled the bottom w/ lead shot and then sealed the end with plaster. Weighted just makes it more stable, easier to use. RCBS UniFlow measures are "OK" -- reasonably accurate when you get your throw technique consistent. Toss the lever sharply each direction (to cut/break rods of stick powder in the measure), then tap the powder container to keep the powder settled in the hopper. Uniflow Manual says you need to check your throw weight every ten rounds. I find that the measure "creeps" a bit, but nothing serious in a rifle load -- +/- 0.05 gr. You can toss the charge into a scale pan and then weigh it, fine tune the load with a trickler. I've done this for match loads. Tossing the base load is much faster than trying to dip or trickle it into a scale pan. Beam scale (RCBS) is the most accurate measure of a charge. I have both a beam scale and an electronic/digital scale. They're both accurate one to the other, but the electronic requires calibration (takes a manual to do it), and the beam scale is fast/easy to set up and use. But note -- This beam scale is a precision piece of lab equipment. It needs to be taken care of. I wrap the beam in a cloth, wrap the pans in cloths and store the unit in the original box. Don't let it sit out where it can collect dust, grime, rust, whatever. | |||
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I don't understand your recommendation against using a trickler. Are you thinking of a different device than what I am calling a "trickler"? As I used the term, a trickler is a device for dispensing powder very slowly and controllably, usually into a scale's weighing pan. When the scale indicates the desired weight has been achieved, you pick up the pan and pour the powder into the cartridge case. Used in this way, tolerance stacking associated with the trickler is completely irrelevant. The scale alone governs. Your description of using a cartridge case is exactly what a trickler does. However, with a trickler, the dispensing tube is mounted in a stationary base (instead of being held in human fingers), and therefore does not require as much skill in twirling the granules out while holding steady. Refilling is more convenient, too. See the picture of Rothke's RCBS Trickler. While a used cartridge case is super cheap, the convenience of a trickler is well worth the $15-$20 one costs, in my opinion. Respectfully, Lost Sheep | |||
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AC can certainly speak for himself, but I think he was referring to a trickler as not being particularly useful for ball and flake powders, and I would agree. Besides, most good measures will throw charges with ball and flake powders which need no adjustment. Where dribblers are worthwhile is with coarse stick powders where you need to dribble just one or two granules at a time into your pan. However, I would also agree that using some other small vessel (like the empty case he suggusts) manually may work about as well, depending on what you're used to and your personal preferences. BTW: I have both an ancient cast iron Herter's dribbler and an aluminum one by RCBS. I find the old Herter's the more useful of the two. | |||
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Canuck, funny you should mention that. I have a .45 ACP shell with the spent primer flipped in the pocket that I used to use for that job. It's in the box with my RCBS trickler. I also used to use the shell to check my thrower before I started running trays of brass for pistol. Never thought about filling the base with lead shot, might have to try that mixed with some epoxy. A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work. | |||
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I don't understand your recommendation against using a trickler. Are you thinking of a different device than what I am calling a "trickler"? As I used the term, a trickler is a device for dispensing powder very slowly and controllably, usually into a scale's weighing pan. When the scale indicates the desired weight has been achieved, you pick up the pan and pour the powder into the cartridge case. That is EXACTLY what I am speaking about using the enpty cartridge case for. Used in this way, tolerance stacking associated with the trickler is completely irrelevant. The scale alone governs. Sorry, but tolerance stack DOES cause problems in using many commercial tricklers in prolonged loading sessions. The powder works its way between the reservoir and the dispensing tube of the trickler. Then the trickler tends to "bind" and is a general pain in the butt. It also leaks powder onto the bench, which I find to be an annoyance. One doesn't have that vexation when using a one-piece thingy such as an empty case. I have a couple of the commercial ones in my stash of tools right now, and use neither. Both bind with one powder or another, and I find an empty case more convenient than either one.. [/COLOR] Your description of using a cartridge case is exactly what a trickler does. However, with a trickler, the dispensing tube is mounted in a stationary base (instead of being held in human fingers), and therefore does not require as much skill in twirling the granules out while holding steady. Refilling is more convenient, too. I don't find refilling an issue, since the amount of powder in a single .30-06 case will do all the trickling I need for loading 100 .30-06 rounds. If I am loading more than that at the time and need to refill it, I just throw a charge into it directly from the powder measure, and continue on my merry reloading way. As to the skill part, it takes all of maybe 5 minutes to develop plenty of practical skill with an empty case. See the picture of Rothke's RCBS Trickler. While a used cartridge case is super cheap, the convenience of a trickler is well worth the $15-$20 one costs, in my opinion. If you want to use a $15 or $20 gadget instead, go for it. I'll use a $0.0 piece of range pickup brass which was tumble cleaned at the same time I did some other brass. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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A trickler is not a complicated or precision made device, they have a single moving part so how "tolerances" may "stack" seems irrelivant. If the drop tube fits the hopper without the powder falling out it's good and every one I've ever seen was fine (and that's been quite a few!). Of course we could just put powder in a bowl and dispense it in finger pinches. I'm not sure if this question was actually related to powder measure or powder scale opinions. ?? | |||
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SWPAhunter, I misread your original post. I would recommend a beam scale even if you get an electronic dispenser. The RCBS 505 is made by Ohaus and is a reliable scale. A check weight set is a good accesory to add, Lyman and RCBS make them. A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work. | |||
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Damn fellows. For years I used a bowl of powder and a teaspoon as my means of topping off my charge weights. Then I got a trickler and up until I read this thread thought I was in tall cotton. I used it to top out all of my charges that I wanted to be extra precise. And it worked. Or so I thought. However, now that I have learnt it is a POS, I will never be comfortable with it again. Aside to lost sheep: until recently when small portabe, electronic scales became available, most BR shooters used a type of dipper for their loadings. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I've been using a 1010 Ohaus scale for about 40 years now. Nothing better in my opinion. I have it set up at eye level on a wall mount separate from the loading bench to avoid vibration. I have Lyman, RCBS and other measures, but I'll use the cheap Lee Perfect every time. It is more repeatable that any other I've tried. I have a trickler but I've found that a fired empty cartridge case of a different caliber than the one being loaded is the best I've tried. I use a 300 Weatherby case as I don't have a gun in that caliber any more. Just fill it half full of powder and top off the scale by tapping the case with the index finger while holding the case horizontally in the hand. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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Thanks, Alberta Canuck, for the explanation. I thought your tolerance stacking had to do with the amount of powder that wound up in the cartridge being loaded. I understand now that you were talking about leakage out of and binding up of the device. Yep, that would be a problem. I have not experienced it. I am always glad to learn a new technique. Before I had a trickler I used a butterknife (substituting for a chemist's spatula). It allowed me to see the powder as it went into the pan. Using a cartridge case, though seems like a pretty good idea, too. Thanks. Lost Sheep | |||
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My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I have a Lee Perfect Powder Measure, and have used it for over 15 years. I've not yet found a need to upgrade it. It's close with long, cylindrical powders, and darn near perfect with finer pistol flake and ball powders. I also have a Lee Safety Scale. It is precise, but I found an Ohaus scale easier to use. | |||
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In my opinion, everyone who reloads should have a good balance beam scale! They are accurate and dependable. If I ever have any question about the weight readings from my electronic scales, I always check it against what my Dillon beam scale says. As for powder dispensers, I have had great success with my cheap Lee unit. To be honest, some of my most consistent reloads came from back when I first started loading and was using the Lee Dipper System. Red C. Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion. | |||
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I'll always have a beam scale on hand, though these days its function is merely to confirm the consistency of my RCBS Chargemaster dispenser. It'll come in handy, along with my RCBS Uniflow powder measure if I want to reload during a power cut.  | |||
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RCBS 10-10 or the RCBS 5-10 are great | |||
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Maybe you could borrow a thumb & forefinger. They make great tricklers. | |||
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I have multiples of everything due to trading and inheritance. I like a digital for weighing bullets and brass. I like a balance beam for weighing powder. For loading larger lots I use the Autoscales which have a balance beam with power tricklers. Not fast enough? Use two | |||
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My son and I have Lyman, RCBS & Redding equipment and have been using it for many years. With all of the powder measures we use a trickler as well. The cost of a trickler is negligible and it has its purpose. We were taught this way, and most reloaders stick to it, but the jury is out on it, slight variances do not make a difference where the bullet prints - the BR shooters showed that conclusively. I have always maintained that cases be weighed too for consistent weight, as they too may vary in weight. That way we can tick off 2 boxes of potential variation (the case and the charge) and not worry about it, and when loading in batches of 20, it is not too much of an effort. The rationale ... it cannot hurt. However, the Benchrest crowd, who concerns themselves with extreme accuracy, do not follow the above routine. They typical load more ammo for an event, and have to load at the bench as well within time constraints. They do not weigh charges the way we as hunters do, the just rely on an accurate powder measure, so they buy more expensive equipment, and in particular more accurate powder measures like the JDS Quick-Measure, Redding's 3-BR, Harrell and Neil Jones. And that makes a lot of sense for them, as they can reload at the range in the wind. The JDS Quick Measure is certainly a very convenient one for field-loading or at the range, and as some one remarked it works extremely well with all types of powder ..... http://www.precisionrifle.org/...DS-QuickMeasure.html Warrior | |||
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