I have heard you can use H 4895 for subvelocity loads in both rifles and handguns.

Can I make up very light stuff for plinking and shooting close to the house without disturbing anyone for calibers like 6PPC or .222, or even larger stuff?

[ 04-02-2003, 06:38: Message edited by: EXPRESS ]

Subsonic loads only refer to the speed of the bullet, it does not refer to the noise of combustion.

...and a subsonic load will make less noise in absense of a sonic boom, no?

As Steve states: There are two "booms".

Getting rid of the bullet's noise by going susonic (about 1100 fps or 330 m/sec) is the second and easier part of the story.

First part is to get rid of the discharging noise by means of a suppressor, and this is more a legal than a technical problem.

[ 04-02-2003, 15:57: Message edited by: waitaminit ]

While 4895 is excellent for moderate loads it's way too slow burning for very light loads. Next down the list are special powders with high bulk made for reduced loads such as IMR's 4759.

But to get loads under the speed of sound very fast burning powders could be used.

When the velocity is very low there is a chance that a jacketed bullet might stick in the barrel so be careful when developing them.

I am not sure what you are trying to shoot "without disturbing someone" but for small pests an air rifle is excellent. Beyond that there are sub sonic loads for the .22LR

Blue Dot has been used quite a bit for reduced and subsonic loads. Do a search here for "Blue Dot Loads" and do a google search for James Calhoons sight. He has quite a bit of information on Blue Dot loads.
John

http://www.accuratereloading.com/222rem.html

Look at the bottom for the various green dot etc loads - Perfect!

What is a green dot equivalent I could get here?
Hodgon, VV, Win...

I have fidled with .22 air rifle pellets in a .222. I had to take a bit of flair out of the skirt with a homemade die. You could also roll it on a flat sirface under a flat object. Maybe a wooden ruler and a piece of cardboard. Anyway try a magnum primer and no powder. If that don't get the pellet out of the barrel try a grain or two of pistol powder.

It is really an exersize in futility. .22 CB Longs by CCI company are super quiet, accuarte and reliable. But if you want to play try the air rifle pellets.

I have done alot of work finding quiet loads.

The ones I have found that sound like a sub sonic pellet gun:

1) CB type ammo in a 22 rifle with 24" or longer barrel
2) .457" lead ball over (2) .1" polypropalene cookie cuttered wads and .5 gr Bullseye, all pushed down into the case so far the the powder is compressed. This fired from a 45/70 Handi rifle will go through 1" of wood, but if the ball is not pushed down in the case, the ball bounces off wood. The two load make the same noise.
3) a 32acp cartrige fired from a 91/30 with 29" barrel using an Alex adapter. .8 gr Bullseye, .315" lead ball, and 2 layers of .1" polypropylene in a 32acp cartridge OAL=.7". This fired is with an adapter in a full length 91/30 7.62x54R barrel.
4) a sub sonic .177 cal pellet gun

The reason the lead ball must be pushed down on the powder is to get the pressure up. The noise increases to the amount of powder divided by the volume of the chamber plus barrel. That increase is not linear. The threshold of muzzle pressure that can make a supersonic gas ball is where the load must stay below. That is why the 18" 22 rifle barrels seem 100 times as loud as a 24" barrel with CB ammo. This goal of small powder, long barrel, and short seating depth may be thought of as increasing the expansion ratio.

You understand compression ratio in your car engine, right?

http://alexcartridge.com/

I was surprised this guy got the idea passed the BATF.

http://www.quietgun.com/about-main.html

When Norm revised the FAQ for rec.guns on lite loads, he did not include the material I sent him on expansion ratio.

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VIIE7.html

I was surprised this guy got the idea passed the BATF.

http://www.quietgun.com/about-main.html

A 7-foot barrel!!! That make a shotgun over 8-feet long. Sort of like a cartoon........probably won't catch on. : )

Express,

Squib or ultralight loads are a lead bullet game. Jacketed bullets are much more likely to get stuck and much harder to get out once stuck. First, you find some bullets that are lightweight for caliber. That may be dificult for .22 and 6mm.

Small capacity cases are the easiest to work with for the pressure reasons mentioned earlier.

Three grains of whatever fast pistol or shotgun powder you have is a place to start. Bullseye, 231, Red Dot, 700x, Unique, HS-5, anything in that range.

When I had my 218 mashburn bee contender barrel, I just had to do some fireforming in the garage, so I could have some loads to try at the range.

I don't recall the exact load, but I believe it was 5gr red dot over a 53 gr hollowpoint. Don't have my load notes handy to see how fast it was going 1100-1600?, but I do recall that my "backstop of 3 2X4's and a 4X4 was insufficient, as the bullet penetrated all of them, then divoted the concrete floor and turned itself completely inside out. It was still a relatively loud load though.

The best quiet load I had was a 150 gr cast bullet over 1/2 gr unique in a 35 whelen. It sounded like a cap gun, but would penetrate 1/2 way through a phone book.

If you really want quiet yet effective loads, you need small charges of fast powder in a large caliber rifle, with cast bullets. One of these days I'll have to try that with the 500 Jeffrey, and a 300 gr cast bullet.

Large lead bullets at even very low speeds are highly effective, outclassing any slingshot