Thanks in advance,

Happy hunting,

Guus

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For evil to prosper, good men must do nothing. (Burke)

Downloading magnum cartridges is said to be frought with danger. A lot of loading books do not reccomend reducing magnum loads beyond their start loads, they are generaly correct in most things.

If flashover/detonation/ destructive interferance of pressure waves in the case doe indeed exist (the reason this practice may be dangerous) then it probably takes a specific combination of powder burn rate, powder position, bullet position and temperature to occur. Just because it hasn't happened to someone who reccomends such a practice doesn't mean it won't happen to you (or them) at some point.

This is not to diminish this forum which is an excellent resource but you cannot safely test for this condition (if it exists), if it happens it will destroy your gun. Published data will have been tested not to produce it.

I've personally played with several light loads *within the limits of the manuals* -- you just have to have the right manuals.

Best results so far in the .270 and .30-06 have been with the reduced loads in Speer #13 (especially their 110-gr. .30-06 loads using XMP-5744) and starting loads in the Lyman manual, using the powders that are on the fast side for the cartridge, e.g., IMR 3031 and IMR 4895. These loads have low recoil and little blast or flash.

The IMR manual also shows lower-velocity loads with most bullet weights in most calibers using powders such as SR 4759, IMR 4198 and IMR 4227.

Good luck,

John

Such velocities are easy to achieve, and you can do it without danger. Go to a reloading manual such as the Lyman, and look at their minimum loads for the caliber in question. You will find a number of loads that give you what you are looking for. Typically they use a bit faster burning powder -- e.g. IMR 4064 instead of IMR7828 or H4831 in a 300 Weatherby.

If you think of 2800 fps as the standard max load with 180 gr. bullets in a 30/06, and 2650 fps as the standard max load using 180 gr. bullets in a 308, then the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 46the Edition lists a number of starting loads for 180 gr bullets in the 300 Weatherby, for example, that go from about 2600 to 2800 fps; these meet what you are trying to achieve.

I once did experiments in my 300 Weatherby with the same goal in mind. I found I could reach the velocities I was looking for, with good accuracy, following the method I outline here.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Tompkins:
LE270,
It would be a good thing if you would read the above posts correctly before making contrary remarks. There is no mention of Guus wanting to shoot cast bullets, only a mention of past experience. The discussion of reduced loads I'm sure is based on common sense and a desire to impart a need for safety. Yes, you make a good point about being able to use faster powders, but that is not the sense of the original question.
Bill

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Well, no slight was intended. John Frazer gave essentially the same answer as I gave. But several respondents wrote about using special powders that are appropriate for very much reduced loads, and at least one spoke of making loads with cast bullets. But those suggestions do not speak to Guus's question, which was about making loads for magnum calibers that duplicate standard 30-06, 308, and 8x57 loads. To do that, the best way to proceed is to look at the beginning loads given in various loading manuals, as I and several others suggested.

Concerning the problem of unsafe loads with reduced powder charges, I suggest that people here read the thread under Jack O'Connor's loading scale. Someone there comments on this problem -- it seems/seemed to arise especially with the old surplus H4831 powder, and possibly with other slow-burning powders. I do not know of ever hearing or reading about it coming from reduced loads using such medium-speed powders as IMR 4064, the 4895s, IMR3031, and so on. (If I'm mistaken about that, I'm sure someone here will point it out.) In any case, if you use loads that are given in recognized loading manuals, you can be certain beyond reasonable doubt that they have been tested and found to be safe.

I concur in trying the starting loads with the faster powders. The Lyman manual is great for this because their starting loads are lower than most manuals and they list faster-burning powders.

E.g., their starting load for the .270 150-gr. with IMR 3031 gets about 2400 fps in my rifle with very good accuracy using Ballistic Tips, which should be a nice mild short-range deer load.

And, the starting load (can't remember which manual or manuals) for IMR 4895 in the .30-06 150-gr. was right around 2475 fps in my rifle with sub-MOA accuracy.

I would check the Lyman, Hornady and Sierra manuals since they seem to start with the lightest charges. Hornady lists several with N160 and N165 in the calibers you mention.