i have a browning 1885 single shot that i had rechambered to .270 weatherby from .270 winchester.

initially, at minimum loads out of the barnes book, i was getting stuck cases. the gunsmith came back with the answer that he had cut a "tight" chamber. i've backed my loads to 2 grains below "book" minimum. the following is now occuring.

my brass is norma and ahead of the belt a virgin case measures .509". after running the case thru the sizer die it comes out .510". after firing, the case measures .515" and after re-sizing, the measurement is .513". i've read that case growth should only be .0005" at normal pressures.

what is going on here? do i have a bad chamber? am i going to get case separations from this?

thanks to all who weigh in...greg

That case growth you're talking about is on the solid web portion of the case often called the head. You can't get an accurate reading on "body" of the case because it does expand upon firing and what it shrinks back to depends on your chamber dimension at the point you're measuring. What I've always done with belted magnums is resized to headspace off the shoulder rather then the belt to prevent any case separation.

You didn't mention how smooth the finish is in your chamber. I also find Norma brass to be soft...but damn good brass none the less.

Joe

I AGREE AND IN RE-SIZING, I DO THE NECKS ONLY. IT'S THAT FIRST FIRING THAT SEEMS TO GROW THE CASE. THE CHAMBER SEEMS APPROPRIATELY SMOOTH, I.E. NO SIGNIFICANT MARKS ON THE CASES.

quote:

Originally posted by 8x68s:
I AGREE AND IN RE-SIZING, I DO THE NECKS ONLY. IT'S THAT FIRST FIRING THAT SEEMS TO GROW THE CASE. THE CHAMBER SEEMS APPROPRIATELY SMOOTH, I.E. NO SIGNIFICANT MARKS ON THE CASES.

I can tell you this about Norma brass. I bought new brass for another entirely different caliber and also have a fresh new barrel and chamber. My Norma cases are waaaaaay undersize, but once I fire them and resize they are okay.

Maybe try some other brand brass???

Joe

Is your chamber cut with the usual Weatherby (IMO entirely excessive) freebore? If it's cut with a normal shorter freebore then your reloading data may well be excessive if the data is meant for factory Weatherby rifles. AAMOFIIRC the typical handloading difference between the freebored chambers and the non-freebored chambers would be around 2 grains of powder so things seem to point that way.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Is your chamber cut with the usual Weatherby (IMO entirely excessive) freebore? If it's cut with a normal shorter freebore then your reloading data may well be excessive if the data is meant for factory Weatherby rifles. AAMOFIIRC the typical handloading difference between the freebored chambers and the non-freebored chambers would be around 2 grains of powder so things seem to point that way.
Regards, Joe

I was thinking that too Joe, was going to ask about the freebore.

Have you fired any factory ammo in it?

Joe

quote:

i was getting stuck cases.

Stuck because of high pressure?

The .0005 growth is the expansion of the solid head around the primer pocket and not the pressure ring ahead of the belt.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

i was getting stuck cases.

Stuck because of high pressure?

The .0005 growth is the expansion of the solid head around the primer pocket and not the pressure ring ahead of the belt.

You must have missed where I stated that.

Joe

REPLY TO ALL:
I WONDER IF "TIGHT CHAMBER" (GUNSMITH) MEANT STD FREEBORE INSTEAD OF "WEATHERBY" FREEBORE. I GUESS A CHAMBER CAST WILL PROVIDE THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER. WOULDN'T HURT TO TRY OUT MY NEW CHRONOGRAPH, TOO. THAT WOULD PROVIDE SOME ANSWERS ABOUT ACTUAL PRESSURE.

THANKS TO "SR4759". I THOUGHT THAT MEASUREMENT WAS AHEAD OF THE BELT... I'LL RE-CHECK.

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

i was getting stuck cases.

Stuck because of high pressure?

The .0005 growth is the expansion of the solid head around the primer pocket and not the pressure ring ahead of the belt.

You must have missed where I stated that.

Joe

You said stuck but not specifically why.
Just clarifying why you had stuck cases.
You did not mention flattened primers or mention if the case heads had expanded due to high pressure.
It sounds like your measurement was focused on the area ahead of the belt.

I DEFINITELY THOUGHT THE STUCK CASES WERE DUE TO HIGH PRESSURE BUT COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY I WOULD HAVE EXCESS PRESSURE FROM A STARTING LOAD. NOW I SEE WHERE STANDARD FREEBORE, SEATING BULLETS CLOSE TO THE RIFLING, SUPPOSEDLY TIGHT CHAMBER,... ALL WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO HIGH PRESSURES, FLATTENED PRIMERS AND STUCK CASES,EH?!! DROPPING BACK 2 GRAINS HAS SOLVED THE CASE STICKING AND RE-MEASURING IN THE RIGHT PLACE WILL GET ME A BETTER NUMBER FOR REFERENCE.

quote:

Originally posted by 8x68s:
I DEFINITELY THOUGHT THE STUCK CASES WERE DUE TO HIGH PRESSURE BUT COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY I WOULD HAVE EXCESS PRESSURE FROM A STARTING LOAD. NOW I SEE WHERE STANDARD FREEBORE, SEATING BULLETS CLOSE TO THE RIFLING, SUPPOSEDLY TIGHT CHAMBER,... ALL WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO HIGH PRESSURES, FLATTENED PRIMERS AND STUCK CASES,EH?!! DROPPING BACK 2 GRAINS HAS SOLVED THE CASE STICKING AND RE-MEASURING IN THE RIGHT PLACE WILL GET ME A BETTER NUMBER FOR REFERENCE.

Yes you need to find out how far you can load your bullet out without forcing it into the leade in or rifling. You can take a fired case and just dent the case mouth to just hold a bullet. Just start your bullet into the case enough to hold it. Then very carefully and gently chamber it letting the chamber seat the bullet. Then extract equally as careful and gentle. This will show you where your rifling starts or what your freebore is. DO NOT load to this length. Seat your bullets a little more deeper then this, say about 1/32 inch. You can play with the seating depth to see what gives you the best accuracy, along with other things. Their are devices to measure the freebore and seating length, but I surmise you don't own them and what I describes will suffice.

Let us know how that works out. One more thing. You may find out that a bullet seated out to the instructions above may be too long for your magazine. Then you will have to adjust the seating depth to fit your magazine.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by 8x68s:
I AGREE AND IN RE-SIZING, I DO THE NECKS ONLY. IT'S THAT FIRST FIRING THAT SEEMS TO GROW THE CASE. THE CHAMBER SEEMS APPROPRIATELY SMOOTH, I.E. NO SIGNIFICANT MARKS ON THE CASES.

All upper case is considered shouting please use upper and lower case as appropriate.

howzabout we stick to the topic of discussion, swede. your comment is rude and unwelcome.

don't know who you are or who appointed you, but the world already has enough hall monitors. it's a free country, or was last i checked, and that allows me to type in whatever "case" i choose.

if you want to participate in the discussion, your comments will be appreciated and considered with the rest. if you're here to check grammar and proper english usage, maybe you should have been a teacher. are things ok there in kansas or are we going to have to send Dorothy and Toto??

8x68S, you're certainly entitled to post in all-caps if you like, but I for one find it quite distracting and so I tend to ignore or discount such posts. Posting in an accepted form (and with at least a slight proof-reading) helps to get the writer's message across more pleasantly and also to convince the intended audience that the writer is competent enough to know what he's talking about.

I'm certainly not saying that you can't post in whatever way that you think best, I'm just saying that your intended audience will probably be a lot more receptive to your message if it's delivered in ways they can enjoy and respect.
Regards, Joe

to mr. steele:
somehow i just don't see the connection between the use of upper case/lower case typing and the initial subject of my post. my usage of 'caps' is a personal laziness of using whatever is turned on. sorry that you find it distracting but it has nothing to do with subject matter. you really shouldn't ignore potentially important information just because it may be capitalized. i do my best with grammar and spelling, as i agree with your comment about convincing the audience the writer is somewhat competent. that being said, it apalls me to see some of the ignorance, mis-information and drivel that's spouted on most firearm related forums. one has to wade thru a lot of bull to find the pearls of wisdom.

your comment about "posting in an accepted form" bothers me a bit. sounds a little controlling and "government-ish". those of us that wish to learn from these forums are open to all that is presented, however it may be presented. our intelligence, expertise & experience level help us sort out the crap.
thanks for your comments!
regards, greg

to winchester 69:
your "intelligent" comment is the kind of "drivel" i was referring to in my above comments.

8x68S, as I said before you are perfectly free to post as you wish.

And I am perfectly free to assign whatever importance to your posts that I think they merit, based on how you present yourself.
Regards, Joe

8X68,

I'd suggest you either make a chamber cast, or ask your smith to do it for you. You can either use Cerrosafe (a low temp melting metal you can get from Brownells or Midway or a bunch of other places) or you can use melted Sulphur.

Actually, scratch the Sulphur reference. It is what I use, because I have this big jar of it, but if you think typing in caps cause controversy talking about using Sulphur and the resulting fumes will make that look like a tempest in a teacup!

Anyway, one way or another get a chamber cast done and that will answer a few of your questions, and also is handy to keep for future reference to keep an eye on throat erosion and any other future changes.

Regarding caps lock, I've been guilty of that in the past myself where in the middle of my pecking style of typing I'll hit the letter A offcenter and hit the caps lock key too and not look up until I have been typing for a couple of minutes. Anyway, just be aware that no matter what you do, if it is not %100 kosher in regards to spelling, punctuation, or scientific accuracy there is a chance someone will point this out to you.

Best thing to do is just take note and move forward, and to be fair sometimes these people who mention these items also provide knowledgeable advice about the original question at hand which is the original intent of the post.


Mark

thanks for your comments mark. especially your second paragraph about "a tempest in a teacup". gave me a good afternoon giggle. and as i was saying about sharing on forums,... there's great info to be had. one just needs to be able to sort it out of the muck.
thanks again, greg

I don't need sorting

muck

sorry, didn't mean to use your name in vain!