We got a brand new Sako Long Range rifle in 338 Lapua Magnum.

I put a scope on it, and was in the process of trying to develop a good hunting load for it, using our Walterhog bullets.

I prepared 50 case, primed them, and loaded the first 5 to shoot.

Non will chamber in the rifle??

I tried an empty case, still will not chamber, I tried a number more, still non will chamber!!

I was using a Redding set of dies, and also have dies from Lee, RCBS, Hornady and Lyman.

I tried all of them, non worked.

I shaved off about 15 thou off the RCBS shell holder, and tried again.

Still no luck.

I went back and shaved as much off the top of the shell holder as I could - in fact, until small pieces started breaking off!

Still did not work.

I measured the thickness of the shell holder that I had modified, and went and measure the thickness of another RCBS shell holder.

To say I was shocked, to see that the one I had shaved off was STILL thicker than a new one, is an under statement!

I tried the other shell holder, and sized one of the cases that would not chamber.

It fit perfectly!!

In over 40 years of reloading, I have never encountered a problem like this.

Walter

I use a #48 rcbs. have not had any issues

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hivelosity:
I use a #48 rcbs. have not had any issues,
I had one with a 270 that was thick

It's obviously a quality control issue. I wonder what method they use to verify a properly cut die. Surely, they aren't forming cases for verification. Have they got some sort of gauge they insert? Do they take measurements? Or, do they just assume the die is cut properly when they make it?

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
It's obviously a quality control issue. I wonder what method they use to verify a properly cut die. Surely, they aren't forming cases for verification. Have they got some sort of gauge they insert? Do they take measurements? Or, do they just assume the die is cut properly when they make it?

I used to sell tooling to RCBS. They have their own in-house reamer grinding shop where they grind reamers to SAAMI specs to ream the dies. Once the dies are reamed, they are heat treated and polished. They are then checked with SAAMI gages to make sure they are on size.
I don't recall what their shellholder operation was but when you make thousands of items there is always the possibility that a few bad ones can slip through.

If you realized how sloppy SAAMI specs are, you would be aghast. Not that anyone is required to follow them anyway, but the tolerances are positively huge. It is a miracle that all our rifles, dies, and brass work as well together as they do.

I picked 10 RCBS shell holders, randomly off the bench, and here is their measurement.

# 1 0.5005
# 3 0.4985
# 5 0.5015
# 2 0.5020
# 12 0.5015
# 2 0.5030
# 12 0.5000
# 1 0.5035
# 3 0.4955
# 9 0.5020


The differences do not seem to be that great, so obviously the one I got earlier was way out of specs.

I think I have taken off at least 30 thou off that one, and it still is too thick.

I looked at the 338 Lapua Magnum cartridge and it is a rimmed, that is, none belted magnum case.

I have had issues setting the shoulder back enough with military cartridges and Lee dies. The dies were too long to set the shoulder back far enough to chamber the round. I have ground shell holders, but I think the better solution is to remove material from the bottom of the die and make the die compatible with standard shell holders. Plus, the risk is less of having a shell holder break extracting a recalcitrant case. After all, all you are looking for is reducing base to shoulder distance on the cartridge.

I take my sizing die, remove the decapping spindle, obviously, and use my bench grinder to just remove enough material so that the case is properly sized between the Go and No Go of a Wilson die.

I always recommend setting up sizing dies with a cartridge case gage. This site provides very useful information on these gages: Extending Cartridge Case Life http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm Having a case gage on the table will quickly tell you if the fired case is within OAL specs, and if the sized case, is within OAL specs.


I have not tried this with a belted magnum and don't know if this will work with one of those. It may not because the belt will eventually bottom out in the die. I really dislike belted magnums for a number of reasons, function and reloading the things, but, sometimes you end up with rifles in belted magnum cartridges.

A very good and informative post from The Boss.

Thank you for the reminder too.

I've just come back from the range where my bench was next to a guy with a Tikka 300WSM. As I recall, he was shooting factory 150-grainers with no problem but then tried some factory Winchester 180-grain cartridges. Not one in the packet would allow the bolt to close. I looked at one and it certainly appeared to be a 300WSM, so it seems quality control is slipping there, too.

I do not trust any shellholder..........

Which is why, over the years, I've become dependent on my "headspace guages". I've used a few RCBS Precision Mic's, with my many "adapters", for all case sizing and forming operations.

Kevin

the difference there could be the ogive on the 180's.
I have seen some rifles show excess pressure with heavier bullets because they would jam the rifling.

I am seeing a lot of new guns [pistols revolvers included]
that are coming from the factory with no throat-leade or oversized cylinder throats.
or with under/over sized barrel diameters.

they all shoot jacketed off the shelf ammo [for the most part] but you run into tolerance issues from time to time and it's a nightmare to get them to shoot anything else.

If you have one will a factory loaded round chamber?

After all that I'd be suspicious of the chamber in the rifle.

I keep boxes of spare shell holders that we do not currently use.

Just looked at one, which has an assortment from PACIFIC, LYMAN AND REDDING.

LYMAN ranged from 0.473 - 0.478

REDDING 0.4975 - 0.504

PACIFIC 0.496 - 0.498

So it seems Pacific kept much closer tolerances than other makes.

Ive had that happen more than a few times but never to that extent..I have seen the problem in factory rifles that had chambers out of spec also, and dies would not work with them, so it can be the case holder, the die itself or the rifle chamber..Ive seen such chambers in English and german chambers and dies had to be adjusted or cases fireformed all manor of problems show up around my shop and friends..I think the Germans in particular just ran the reamer until it "looked good" and sent her out.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Gullette:
I do not trust any shellholder..........

Which is why, over the years, I've become dependent on my "headspace guages". I've used a few RCBS Precision Mic's, with my many "adapters", for all case sizing and forming operations.

Kevin

The RCBS Precision Mic is not really a precision tool. No two are made to same tolerances. In other words, each base and measuring thimble which make the tool are not matched and calibrated to a set standard.

Just mentioning what an RCBS Tech told me years ago. Still a useful gauge to determine case dimension changes. Very creative with your bushing for the wssm ctg...

The only really "precision" tool is the Wilson Case Gauge, and those require attachment to a caliper.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I keep boxes of spare shell holders that we do not currently use.

Just looked at one, which has an assortment from PACIFIC, LYMAN AND REDDING.

LYMAN ranged from 0.473 - 0.478

REDDING 0.4975 - 0.504

PACIFIC 0.496 - 0.498

So it seems Pacific kept much closer tolerances than other makes.

Couple questions, Saeed, if you please...

What brand of brass were you using, and was it virgin/new?

How many other .338 Lapua rifles do you load for?

Would it be feasible to tune one set of dies specifically for the new Sako rifle?


I have a TRG-42 that I switchbarrel; a .300win mag chambering. Seems like your Sako Longrange (not familiar with the model details) has a short oal chamber which I would prize for minimal brass working and tight tolerance which will deliver best accuracy and precision. Of course, if you have several .338LM rifles and need ammunition to interchange or prefer not to tune loading gear to just one rifle, then maybe return the rifle...

Seems like you got some ammunition assembled that would chamber. Would be interesting to see what the 1x fired and unsized cases from all your .338LM rifles measured on an RCBS Precision Mic or Wilson Case Gauge.

quote:

Originally posted by aklester:

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Gullette:
I do not trust any shellholder..........

Which is why, over the years, I've become dependent on my "headspace guages". I've used a few RCBS Precision Mic's, with my many "adapters", for all case sizing and forming operations.

Kevin

The RCBS Precision Mic is not really a precision tool. No two are made to same tolerances. In other words, each base and measuring thimble which make the tool are not matched and calibrated to a set standard.

Just mentioning what an RCBS Tech told me years ago. Still a useful gauge to determine case dimension changes. Very creative with your bushing for the wssm ctg...

The only really "precision" tool is the Wilson Case Gauge, and those require attachment to a caliper.

Actually.....My Mic based case guages are a bit more accurate than caliper based attachments, in that no "calibrated thumb pressure", for the caliper, is required. Half a "thou" is easily resolved.

BTW.....the silver adapter is for 17AH or 17AB brass. The casehead(low tech) adapter shown sitting in the box is for PPC cases.

Kevin

G'Day Fella's,

Saeed, thank you for sharing this unfortunate problem with us.

As the owner and reloader of ammo from my .338 Lap Mag rifle, I had to actually purchase an RCBS shell holder and this was for one particular reason.
RCBS shell holders, have a small channel type recess machined into the top face, from the front edge over to the re-priming hole in the center of the shell holder.
With my .338 Lap Mag, the primers are cratering slightly with the load I use. This cratering, was stopping me from loading the fired cases into the existing Redding shell holder I purchased with the dies.
The above mentioned channel type recess in the RCBS shell holder, takes this crated primer issue into consideration and allows enough clearance for this to no longer be a problem.

Some may question the load I am using but it is what I refer to as a Maximum Safe Working Load (MSWL), in this rifle (250grn bullets @ just over 3000fps, 26" barrel). It is also at the maximum recommended powder charge, according to the powder manufacture.
Oh, and it shoots clover leafs (x5) size groups when I do my bit.

Sorry but I don't know how to post images on this forum, so here is a link to the Nosler forum, with some images of my .338 Lap Mag rifle. https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34348


Hope that helps

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer