Hi Everyone,

Was at the range yesterday doing some testing of low recoil loads of IMR 4198 in my .30-06. All shot off just fine with no issues at all, and found some really decent accuracy (3/4") on 31 grains, a 125 gr nosler ballistic tip, with overall length of 3.28"

couple of things happened that have me curious, though... Although all cartridges shot off fine, I found on some I could clearly hear the firing pin hit the primer, then the shot went off.... there was no major pause in between, it was basically a click-boom. Others were just fine, but have never experienced that before.

Would there be an explanation for this? primer that delayed?

Thanks

4198 if far to fast for an 06. my guess is that with that amount of powder when you loaded the rifle or what, the powder ran to to front of the case and it took a bit for the primer to ignite it that far away.

Butch is correct, I believe. Hodgdon does not recommend 4198 at all for the 30-06. Even with their published reduced loads they use 4895, and then with at least 39 grains. I think your load is dangerously low.

I have found multiple sources of data on this for max loads of a 150 gr bullet and 38 gr of IMR 4198, 39.5 gr of IMR 4198 for a 110 gr bullet. I need to be somewhere in between these for a max load, so I averaged them to get a decent starting point that I would hope would not be an issue as it is between bullet weights and between powder weights: Max of 38.75 for a 130 gr bullet.

So...If I reduce the load to start building up, I went to 80%...31 grains exactly would be 80% of 38.75

Is 20% reduction too much to start with this particular powder?

I've used IMR 4198 in larger capacity rifle cases for reduced loads with some success. However, it would appear that your loading density (amount of space the powder takes up) is a bit too low for consistent ignition.

I would suggest two things; first, if you can tolerate a slightly heavier load and still meet your reduction goals, move up to around 90% of the recommended load. Two, although I rarely find much use for "magnum" primers, this may be a case where a hotter primer would solve your hangfire problem. Try some Federal 215's and see if your "click-bang" problem goes away.

By the way, you are exceedingly lucky if those hangfires print near the other shots in your group since the practical result of a hangfire is the same as hugely increased lock time.

If I can stop the hangfire, I'd really like it too...was just odd, but a bit disconcerting as I have never experienced it. It was weird.

As for going up in charge, that is no major issue as I am looking to be around 2500 FPS on muzzle velocity (similar to the remington managed recoil) but yet not make the felt recoil so much it becomes painful to shoot more than a few rounds. I've done that enough to know I don't care for it and since this is for whitetails I don't need all that "umph" to get the job done, but want something more accurate than factory loads.

I have never been able to get this gun "spot on" with managed recoil or any other factory loads, and...being a lefty, the choices in caliber are a bit limited.

VMS
You said you can hear the firing pin hit the primer, if that is correct I would think your head space is not set correctly on your sizing die, firing pin takes up the slack (space)case moves forward space is gone firing pin catches up & producing a delay ignition.
The issue sent with the other members about the powder should be checked into as well.

I too don't like recoil. I did try 110 grainers in my 30-06 and couldn't tell all that much difference from the 150 grain bullets I had been using. I did get a very mild load using cast bullets around 1600 fps, but I wouldn't use that on deer. Very true the 30-06 is great on deer but very true it is much more than actually needed. I don't think it is a very good choice for what you are trying to do. You can train a jackass all you want but your not going to win the Kentucky Derby with one. I'd drop down to a .223 or even a .222 ; if legal in your state for deer and if not maybe a .243.

VMS,

The first and best thing I can recommend for you to do is to get a recoil pad shooting vest.

No affiliation, but cabellas has a magnum rifle vest on sale for $25:

//www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Shooting-Accessories/Mens-Shooting-Vests-Shell-Bags|/pc/104792580/c/104769180/sc/103995180/Past-Ambidextrous-Recoil-Shields/708832.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FN%3D1100230%26WTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd708832&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd708832%3Bcat103995180

I bet this will help you much more than spending $25 on load development, and make other guns more pleasant to shoot too.

Also, you don't mention what the gun is. A different stock may help quite a bit as well.

"I have a question...."

Most folks who post here do.

Just a suggestion. Try some RL-15. For a 150 grain bullet between 46-48 grains of RL-15. 46 should give you almost 2600 FPS 48 will give you about 2680 FPS. The felt recoil will be great.
Alliant Powders says 52 grains of RL-15 will give you almost 2900 FPS with a 150 grain bullet. Somewhere between 46-52 you should find an accurate load and a recoil you can live with.
I'm a recoil wuss, too!

quote:

Originally posted by VMS:
Although all cartridges shot off fine, I found on some I could clearly hear the firing pin hit the primer, then the shot went off.... there was no major pause in between, it was basically a click-boom. Others were just fine, but have never experienced that before.

Would there be an explanation for this? primer that delayed?

Thanks

I had the same thing happen with 300 Win Mag reduced loads using book recommended loads of H4895. I stopped using them. I didn't even notice this until I had replaced the trigger with a Timney, and the trigger break was so precise, that I noticed a slight delay on firing. Did not have this issue with full power loads.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the replies so far.

Here is what I have bee doing with reloading, and the gun itself.

Gun: Limbsaver recoil pad installed, lighter trigger spring installed. Helped a TON on the trigger and on felt recoil, but I want to be able to take this gun out and shoot for an afternoon. a recoil pad vest will only do so much and after 20 or so rounds of standard loads, I'd be a bit sore as I would feel most others would be as well.

Brass: All brass used so far is neck sized (2nd reload on brass) as this is a bolt gun, or brand new.

Don't have the $$ to just go buy another gun, and with the .30-06 being more versatile than I ever expected, is fun to play around with, thus no other caliber will be coming into my hands anytime soon. Already have a .223 varmint bull barreled rifle that is a blast to shoot and work with as well.

If they made my gun in a .308 for LH, I would have switched to that years ago. Love that caliber as I had one that shot really well (lever action)

Acclimation to recoil is just like anything else. You need to start out slow and build up. If not, you'll develope nasty little habits like flinches and anticipating the trigger fall.
When I was shooting a lot of 30-06s and boomers, I could shoot 100 rounds of 30-06 ammo a day in a T-shirt. When I got off onto lighter cartridges for a while, I found I had to work back up.
regardless of the cartridge, don't shoot until it hurts.

Ditch the '06 and go 260.

If you have a .260 you'd like to give me, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'm staying with the 06 due to funding..

The .30-06 is NEVER a mistake.

For reduced power loads use light bullets and use modest charges of 4895 powder.

Most hang-fires are due to the primers being damaged by excessive pressure during seating.

VMS--You didn't tell us where you'll be hunting. I can appreciate not having funds for another rifle and the 30-06 being versatile. If the .223 that you have is legal on deer your area, you'll find it is a very good whitetail round that produces the results you seek (light recoil).

I know my .223 could do the job, but to be up on a deer stand 20 feet with a 26" bull barreled gun that I might have to hold steady free-handed for a period of time could be a little costly on a deer.

The .30-06 is really nice for weight, accuracy and versatility... I'd like to keep working on a load for it that keeps me in the 2500 fps range for an ideal expansion with the tip of choice.

I am hoping people respect that wish and stay with my original question.

Thanks

look up sr-4759 and reduced loads with H-4895.
the delay was the powder lighting off and can eventually lead to other problems.
like when aiming down at that deer all the powder is against the bullet and not the primer,and the boolit just goes 1" down the bbl then the powder ignites.