I've heard that some rifles simply won't shoot a particular bullet weight well, but I haven't had much experience with it until now. My .338 WM Weatherby Vanguard won't shoot 250 grain bullets worth a hoot. The rifle is glass bedded/freefloated. I've tried two different powders, two different bullets (Hornady Spire Point, Sierra BTSP), multiple seating depths, and a new Timney trigger. Three shot groups hover around 2+ inches at 100 yards, with an occasional 1.5 incher or better. Anyone come across this bullet preference before and what were the group size results when switching to a different weight bullet? I guess what I'm wondering is whether a lighter bullet has the potential to shoot much better or is it going to be mediocre with everything? If so, I'll cut my losses now and trade off the rifle. My 375H&H will group into 1 MOA all day long, so I doubt it is my shooting ability.

Russell420

My Ruger #1 in 338 Win Mag shoots 200 and 225's better than 250's. I don't have my load notes handy, but I seem to remember IMR 4064 was the powder that worked best.

Good luck!!

I think a lot of it is barrel twist..My .308 tac rifle will group in the next county(3") with 150gr-no matter what bullet...It will group 1.5" at 200yds allm day long with 175-180gr.Thats with me shooting,my frigging 19yr old laughs at me..he consistently shoots .35 at 100,1" at 200....But thats cool I still put 6 deer in the freezer every year....duh-1-10 twist..

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding barrel twist rates. It is best to use the bullet weight (length) that is rated for your barrel twist because:

1- Too slow a twist will fail to stabilize the bullet and accuracy will suffer.

2- Too fast a twist allows imperfections in the bullet's balance (mainly in the jacket) more opportunity to influence the path of the bullet's flight, and accuracy MAY suffer.

Ergo: To optimize the stabilization and trajectory of your bullet, choose the SLOWEST twist rate that will work for your fav bullet. Conversely, choose bullets that will just stabilize with your barrel's twist.

I have seen (on internet forums only) allegations that over stabilization can cause very light bullets to fly apart. I have never seen this personally and know no one who has. I have shot bullets as light as 37 grains in a .223 rem 1/9" twist that worked ok and bullets as heavy as 73 grains that worked ok.
Neither gave me the best, consistent groups in that rifle.

All this being said, every rifle has its own personality and likes and dislikes. Also, you should be aware that just because a rifle maker says that the barrel's twist rate is such and such, does not mean it is so 100% of the time.

Try a shorter bullet of the same weight.
If it is a problem with the twist a shorter bullet in the same weight may work.

You can look on line for a length and twist calculator that can tell you if your bullet is a little too long for the twist.

I suspect many rifles to be velocity sensitive and won't shoot the heavier bullets as good because the don't reach the optimum velocity or won't shoot light bullets because they are above the optimum velocity range.

I KNOW this is the case with my old 700 ADL .30-06. After many thousands of rounds through the barrel, and no rifling left in the first three inches, it is still the most accurate rifle I have ever shot.

In that rifle it doesn't matter what weight the bullet is, what the shape is, or who manufactured it, if it can hit 2,850 fps it will put five bullets into one hole at 100 yards.

The window is approximately +/- 30 fps.

I used one of the twist calculators on the net and found that the appropriate twist for 250 grain 338 bullets at 2700fps is more like 1 in 14 rather than my rifle's 1 in 10. However, all the specs for 338 Win Mag rifles I checked online show a 1 in 10 twist, which is apparently the standard. Dropping to a 200 grain bullet at 3000fps, the appropriate twist seems to be 1 in 16, which suggests to me that it won't shoot as well. Perhaps I'm using the calculators incorrectly, but it seems that the rifles offered in the caliber don't have the appropriate twist rate, but I know that's not the case as there are many accurate 338s out there using the 1 in 10 twist. Somebody figured out that 1 in 10 was best, and I guarantee they're smarter than me in these matters. I suppose I'll try some 200 grain Nosler BT bullets that I still have from years ago to see if they'll shoot before trading off the rifle. They definitely are not what I want to use long-term, though.

Russell420

i had an old 257 years back that would shoot 90 gr sierras into an inch or so, anything else would sort of pattern. that said, it the rifle won't shoot what i want it to, its down the road for it, or new barrel time

Russell420,

My son has the same rifle and we have had great luck using 73 grs of RL-19 under a 250 gr Speer Grand Slam.

His rifle will also shoot the 250 sierra game kings very nicely.

Try the Speers.

Good luck and don't give up on the 250's...IMHO...that is the bullet weight that really shines in the 338 for large animals like elk.

My .338 loved the original Nosler 250's and their 2nd gen. 250's but scatters their latest version all over the paper. So far I have not found anything else that works as well.
C.G.B.

I din't even think it's bbl. twist rate. Some bbls. just don't like some bullets. My 338-06 will shoot 185gr-210gr bullets & any 250gr bullet into very nice sub 1" groups. The best I have been able to do w/ any 225gr is 2". It just does not like 225gr bullets until you slow them down to about 2550fps. I can almost run my 250gr that fast.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I din't even think it's bbl. twist rate. Some bbls. just don't like some bullets. My 338-06 will shoot 185gr-210gr bullets & any 250gr bullet into very nice sub 1" groups. The best I have been able to do w/ any 225gr is 2". It just does not like 225gr bullets until you slow them down to about 2550fps. I can almost run my 250gr that fast.

Maybe that's the optimum velocity for that barrel?

Sometimes a rifle just plain does not like a bullet. My M700 in -06 is sub MOA with any bullet I have tried (110-200gr) EXCEPT 165gr. I tried Speers, Sierras and Barnes X and it would shoot none into better than 2.5 inches. However, it likes the 165TSX Since this is in the middle of the length range of bullets, it should not be a twist issue and since it's a factory barrel, I'm sure most M700's shoot 165's just fine. Luckily I can use 150's or 180's for most applications.
If you want to shoot a particular weight bullet and your rifle doesn't like it, you may want to try a monometal since they are generally longer than lead core bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor D:

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I din't even think it's bbl. twist rate. Some bbls. just don't like some bullets. My 338-06 will shoot 185gr-210gr bullets & any 250gr bullet into very nice sub 1" groups. The best I have been able to do w/ any 225gr is 2". It just does not like 225gr bullets until you slow them down to about 2550fps. I can almost run my 250gr that fast.

Maybe that's the optimum velocity for that barrel?

Nope, it shoots 210grNP @ 2750fps into tiny round groups. The 250gr @ 2500fps same, it just won't shoot any 225gr I have tried, & that has been a few. That's fine, it is a great killer of game large & small w/ the 210grNP, just fickle about 225gr. I am sure it is a bbl. harmonics thing. I do have some 225grTTSX that shoot one hole groups in my 338x74, I may try one more time.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Sometimes a rifle just plain does not like a bullet. My M700 in -06 is sub MOA with any bullet I have tried (110-200gr) EXCEPT 165gr. I tried Speers, Sierras and Barnes X and it would shoot none into better than 2.5 inches. However, it likes the 165TSX Since this is in the middle of the length range of bullets, it should not be a twist issue and since it's a factory barrel, I'm sure most M700's shoot 165's just fine. Luckily I can use 150's or 180's for most applications.
If you want to shoot a particular weight bullet and your rifle doesn't like it, you may want to try a monometal since they are generally longer than lead core bullets.

There is a .308DIA bullet that is 168GR, have you tried it? It would be intresting to know or find out if it shot the 168's like a camp and spit the 165's out like a mg or a shotgun. :P
I have a 1903A3 (30-06) and it just loves 220RN's. But I have a crap ton of 165GR Hornady A-Max bullets I picked up real cheap. I haven't loaded any for load testing yet. I maybe end up doing that this weekend. I will let you know the turn out.
It sure doesn't like 110GR though 130's. 150's are ok and good enough for the hunting in my State. Most deer or moose are taken at under 75yds here. If I made a lot more money then what the VA pays out I could afford the fancy bullets.

If you can PM me or anyone with a 700 cambered in 30-06, a good friend bought one and is just starting into reloading. I couldnt tell him what grain bullet to start at or powder to look at. He works for starbucks, says" I only stay there because of all the collage chicks!"
dont blame the guy.
THanks for all and any of the help.
James.

Stay away from twist calculators, They are ALWAYS wrong. Too slow of a twist can make it impossible to work loads. Slow twists are for closer ranges. For longer ranges you can't get the boolit fast enough for stability.
It is far easier to reduce velocity with a fast twist then to try and overload for a slow twist.