The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Re: Brush Busters.........Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Quote: Can't say it any better than that. | |||
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Any bullet will be deflected at least to some degree when passing thru branches or brush. Luck is when it hits directly where you intended. How badly it deflects just depends on each individual shot. Some bullets are tough enough to stay in one piece however and can still get the job done if not deflected too badly off course. These are typically the larger/heavier bullets at low to modest velocities. Flyweight bullets at hypervelocity tend to disintegrate upon impact with branches, etc. My "brush buster" is a .450 Marlin Guide Gun, but I still avoid shooting thru brush whenever possible. | |||
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I ain't found that annymul either. | |||
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Well for some of those that don't believe the old brush buster theory, there are some cartridges that make it thru brush better than others do in my book. Everyone has mentioned the old lever action favorites, I side with TJ, on the fact that the 444 and the 45/70 are very hard to beat. However, although owning and loving my 444, I am normally a bolt action guy. A 7 x 57 with a 175 grain round nose, or a 30/06 with a 220 grain round nose, or a 338/06 (or 338 Mag, ) with a 250 grain round nose, the 35 Whelan with a 250 grain round nose, and I almost forgot for the Mag guys also mentioning the 300 Mags with a 220 grain round nose. ( Can you tell I believe in Round Nose bullets or flat nose bullets as best for heavy cover???) These may not be brush calibers then, but they sure work awfully well in that environment. Cheers and good brush busting seafire OH, PS: Kudos to the guys who remembered the 348, and the 356/358 Winchesters. lets not forget the 33 Winchester! either! | |||
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There certainly is such an animal. I've taken many deer w/ RN .35 and 30-30 bullets after passing through small twigs and sometimes descent size saplings. In the areas where we hunt in "Brush" the ranges are that of archery and sometimes alittle farther. Not too much deflection occurs if the brush is close to the animal. Now, if you hit a limb 50 yards from them, thats a different story but, I am primarily talkin' those shots at close range. Sometimes when a rutting buck comes through at close range you are just not going to get that perfectly clear shot but, I learned along time ago that a slow RN or FP bullet would punch through and get the job done. I've never had a bullet deflected much under the above circumstances. My friend likes the Marlin line. What's the recoil like on a lever action 45-70 w/ a 22" bbl(say a 300-400+ bullet)? I haven't ever used the ole' 45-70 cart. but, what I have heard in the past few years has got me interested. The 444 looks great too. Thanks, for all of the suggestions. Reloader | |||
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MPB, Not kidding at all. Sometimes there is no chance for a clear shot when you hunt deep in thickets and brush. I've shot many through the brush and never missed one(yet). When they are up close, as I said, deflection is not much at all (if any). The kill I mentioned through the sapling was a large bodied 8pt chasing does and the bullet severed a 2" sapling 10 feet in front of the Buck before dropping him. Sure, I could have passed up the shot but, He wouldn't be hangin' on the Living Room wall right now either. That reason alone is why I hunt thick areas w/ the ole' "Dirty-Thirty" or 35 Rem as my guns of choice. Thanks guys for all of your input on this thread. The Marlin line is probably going to be his direction. 444 or 45-70 will probably get the vote, that's for him to figure out. Now, what optics to use. Open sights would be an option except, it is too hard to aquire the target in low light situations, especially, if the animal is deep in the brush. IMO a good low-powered Leupy or Burris would do the trick. Thanks, Reloader | |||
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I understand the scenario you describe, and if the deer is right behind the brush i'd take that shot. To answer your question re: the recoil in about a 22" bbl, I don't know. My 444 is the outfitter, same as the guide gun, and it has something like an 18.5 or 19 inch ported bbl. The guns recoil pad is substantial, and I really don't notice the kick as much as the muzzle blast, neither of which bother me very much. I'm with seafire, I'm really a bolt action kind of guy, and this is the only lever gun I own. Most of my hunting is done over fields with my 25.06, but when I go to the woods, the 444 goes with me. One extra note, any of the Marlin guide gun type rifles are EXTREMELY handy in the field-short little carbines that maneuver well in the brush. You might want to head to your local shop and just handle one if that's the way your friend is leaning. TJ | |||
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Even though some say there is no such a thing as a brush buster, I reinterate, some things work better than others. The largest deer I ever took was in Northern Minnesota, and weighted 265 lbs field cleaned. He was estimated to be about 340 on the hoof by the Dept of Natural Resources a the weigh in. That deer was taken with a 444 Marlin at about 85 to 100 yds, as he cut behind an ash sapling that was about 8 inches or so in diameter. The 240 grain factory load cut the ash tree in half and downed the buck. The shot was good, but the tree got in the way. It is dumb luck that the 240 grain bullet cut the tree in half and kept on going in a straight line to hit the buck a few feet behind it at a dead run. A lot of other bullets would not have done so. The buck would have made it away that day I am convinced. So no, I don't consider that my 444 will go thru anything. However, I sure have confidence in it doing a better job in that environment than a lot of other calibers. As far as dumb luck: Well, I think a lot of hunters experience a lot more dumb luck than we give ourselves credit for on our successes. We take credit for what should be given to plain old dumb luck. People will argue with that, but no one will argue much with experiencing bad luck on a hunt. But luck, good or bad, goes hand in hand in about anything in life, including hunting. Cheers and good shooting seafire | |||
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| <9.3x62> |
I recall reading a book some time ago where the author went to considerable lengths to test the brush-busting theory. He used screens of various underbursh, and then shot through them with a whole range of rounds. If I recall correctly, he found the 150-160 6.5mm bullet at about 2300 fps to be the most reliable. I think the 358 and 348 were right in there as well. As I recall, the 45-70 faired quite poorly, surprisingly. I think he ultimately concluded that there was velocity window (2100-2500 fps) that seemed most amenable to get through the various brush media; i.e., the same bullet faster or slower performed much worse. Anyway... I'll see if I can find the book. | ||
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Reloader---in my humble opinion, if you havested the animal after shooting through brush, trees, saplings and other floura and fauna, the hunting gods were smiling on you. All bullets with the exception of the 105mm recoiless rifle will deflect to some extent..normally not for the best. | |||
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While I'm not sure if there is really a "brush buster", I always use the term loosely for conversation with the old guys who believe it. I have two guns that you can kill a deer with and possibly cut your firewood at the same time....a model 88 winchester in 358 and a siamese mauser in 45-70. My best brush buster is a 243 with 100 grain spitzers....thread it between the brush to remove doubt. Jasper243 | |||
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Quote: Yes, distance from the animal and velocity makes all the diference. If I had to choose it would come down to .35 Rem. or Marlin .444. I don't want to invest that much $$ in a gun I wouldn't use that much and with limited other uses, and if iron sights are o.k. the cheap and available Com Bloc M44 carbines in 7.62x54R with the Russian 203 grain soft points would be a nice inexpensive alternative. Bullets 165 grains and over, velocity under 2600 fps, and a rifle you can handle are all you need. In the old classic "Art of Successful Deer Hunting", Francis Sell has a very interesting section on his observations to that effect. | |||
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I think it would be safe to say that bullets with a large sectional density would be the best "brush busters" Take the 6.5mm bullets, these have been used to take elephants because they penetrate. Penetrate as in hit something and keep going in a straight line. | |||
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Good Luck and God Bless! Reloader