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Re: VERY flat factory load primers (I think)
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Picture of Collins
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I just miked everything and it's within spec.
The case is 0.003" bigger above the head area.
Head = 0.550"
Case above head = 0.553"
Distance to shoulder = 1.671"

These were Chronographed and also fell within spec around 3000 - 3050 FPS
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: The Sunny South! St. Augustine, FL | Registered: 29 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Collins
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Could you (the collective you) take a look at these for me. I've just started shooting a gun this size and from what I've read here these are dangerous signs.
Flat Primers (I'm not sure what to look for but these fit the description)
Stressed case heads (Not sure but the marks on the brass are new to me)
The one chrome primered case is a moderate reload (2900 FPS) on new brass. everything else is factory 180grn. Is this a problem? What can I do about it? How close am I to hurting something, Me or the gun?

Vanguard 300WSM stock everything



 
Posts: 2327 | Location: The Sunny South! St. Augustine, FL | Registered: 29 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Unfortunatly the focus is a bit out in the second picture, but the flat primers and cases look similar to my factory fired 300WSM cases. You might measure the shoulder location to verify you don't have a slight headspace problem. The missing primer though worries me. Did it come out on its own or have you deprimed that case? If is fell out after shooting, it is dangerously overpressure.

The WSM's are pretty well known for hot factory loadings, especially the Winchester line. Personally, I have stuck with reloads after my first 2 boxes and intend to continue for the near future...
 
Posts: 1780 | Location: South Texas, U. S. A. | Registered: 22 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I decapped that on myself. Is the marking above the extraction grove normal?



I just miked everything and it's within spec.

The case is 0.003" bigger above the head area.

Head = 0.550"

Case above head = 0.553"

Distance to shoulder = 1.671"



These were Chronographed and also fell within spec around 3050 - 3100 FPS





 
Posts: 2327 | Location: The Sunny South! St. Augustine, FL | Registered: 29 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Collins
They look fine to me also. What little marking I can see in the extractor groove is normal.
Different brands of primers react differently, and the powder burn rate can also have a effect on the primer appearance.
 
Posts: 2124 | Location: Whittemore, MI, USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Do you happen to know the velocity? They look fine to me but if they were 180 grain bullets at 3200FPS I'd be worried no matter what they looked like. If they hit the expected velocity (or within 100FPS) I usually don't worry about how they look. I'm not all that sure flat primers can tell you all that much. I much prefer to rely on velocity. There is no free lunch and if you are getting more velocity than any reloading book predicts, you are probably overpressure regardless of what the "traditional signs" of pressure say.

Take it for what it's worth.....not much. Just my opinion.

NoCAL
 
Posts: 167 | Location: Woodland, CA USA | Registered: 11 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Quote:

Is the marking above the extraction grove normal?





Looks identical to my cases, both factory and reloads. The Win WSM cases are really thick in the head area, so the expansion of the body really shows up. .003" is not a problem.

From a velocity of 3050-3100 I assume you are talking about 165 grain bullets, not 180's?
 
Posts: 1780 | Location: South Texas, U. S. A. | Registered: 22 January 2004Reply With Quote
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When I fire new brass loads , My primers show Flatening out . But the second reload with the brass just neck sized and fire formed to the chamber the same brand primers Dont flatten at all.
 
Posts: 4821 | Location: Idaho/North Mex. | Registered: 12 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of KYODE
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headspace....headspace.....headspace. factory ammo right? the brass is just strectching to fit your chamber. should be no problem for first time firing of factory ammo. factory ammo is made to fit ALL guns. possibly your chamber is very slightly deeper than some.
when you reload these cases only slightly bump the shoulder back. this will give a good fit in the chamber, and likely not flatten the primer with a normal load.
 
Posts: 268 | Location: Northeast Kentucky | Registered: 29 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I raised the flag too early. It looks like the consensus is that I shot normal Factory loads and that's the way they end up. I even sectioned one and the web (0.210" of it) is where the case expands the 0.003" Thanks.

Just re-read the Chrony and you're right (again) high 2900's for all 6 shots 180 Grain

Thanks for the help
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: The Sunny South! St. Augustine, FL | Registered: 29 May 2004Reply With Quote
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looks like what I expect from some factory loads.. hotter than I would ever reload...

376 steyr, 30-06, 708 light mag, and 7 meg rounds tend to look like this, too, from the factory

jeffe
 
Posts: 40030 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Primer hardness varies considerably from manufacturer to manufacturer. Even with a familiar manufacturer, it's pretty hard to tell pressure from primers.

I do have a couple of instrumented rifles, and have noticed with CCI primers, the "knee" of the flattening curve is about 50 KPSI. Below that, they seem to stay very rounded, and as you get above that, they flatten. So you are going to get some flattening well before you get into pressure trouble.

The one silver colored primer in the center of the second picture is still clearly rounded.

As mentioned, switch to neck sizing, and watch for unusually high MV, and I think you'll be fine.

I recently did a rigorous investigation of miking the brass to estimate pressure, and you have to average a whole lot of shots to get an answer that is adequately precise. The method contains a whole lot of random noise, which can sometimes lead you right, and often lead you wrong.
 
Posts: 2281 | Location: Layton, UT USA | Registered: 09 February 2001Reply With Quote
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The Norma 7x64 150gr factory loads really flatten the primers in my rifle!
 
Posts: 371 | Location: Florida | Registered: 25 April 2003Reply With Quote
<eldeguello>
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They certainly look OK to me, from your pictures. To really evaluate them, I'd have to decap them and seat new primers to see if the new ones go in too easily.... or not!
 
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