I am interested in getting into some more serious 1,000 yard shooting. When talking the other day to another shooter who is very good at it, I asked about what kind of loads does he use...he said his were VERY hot...and way beyond the maximum loads the manuals allow.
And that this type of load is needed to get that 175gr. round out 1,000 yards and on target.
So, this brings up the question of how far beyond the manuals maximum load can you go and still feel safe about your loads?
I shoot 7mm rem mag and feel nervous loading even close to the max. So what are your ideas on this guys?
Thanks
Bob

I'd say the guy is an idiot. If the 7mm rem mag doesn't produce the velocity you need, then get a longer barrel and chamber for a bigger case. Then you can safely achieve the desired velocity.

Unfortunately there is plenty of bad advice about loading hot, and those that promote loading hot have no idea how hot their loads are, nor how those loads will damage their guns over time.

Talk to someone else. This particular acquaintance is telling you more than he knows.

There is nothing to be gained by exceeding acceptable pressures, and although loads at pressures in the higher range of acceptability sometimes do exhibit excellent accuracy, "overloading" is almost always detrimental to accuracy. At velocities appropriate to 1000 yard shooting, an extra 50 or 100 fps isn't going to make nearly as much difference as an extra .050 in bullet ballistic coefficient or an extra .05 minute in accuracy.

It is also possible that some individual rifles do not run excessive pressures with loads that are significantly above some published "maximum" in one or another source. Each rifle is an individual. This is especially true if some Neanderthal has burned up the first inch or riflings in the throat with promiscuous shooting of excessive loads.

While high velocity helps in 1000 yard shooting, it is far from the only factor, and not even the most important.

ruger22com, if you want to read about loading at 65,000 psi (and sometimes above) read the thread - "what is excessive pressure" below (or above).

I load hot for hunting big game at long range, but to "kill" targets don't bother. Find a mild-mannered, yet accurate, consistent load that is fun to shoot with a predictable trajectory. Sierra makes first-rate target bullets at reasonable prices.

Guys that shoot the 1000yd game deal in a different set of rules than most shooters. I would go over to benchrest.com and get on the 1000yd forum and they maybe could help you out alittle. What little I know and that isn't much their are two schools on 1000yd shooting guys that push the envelope and ones who play it safe. I wouldn't put too much into the over max loads I've got afew rifles and the loads I still use are over max on some reloading manuals and there has been enough on this forum also as to old and new reloading manual data etc. Kind of reminds me on asking a Br shooter his load when I first got started you kind of learn not to believe what is said. Well good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by ruger22com:
...how far beyond the manuals maximum load can you go and still feel safe about your loads? I shoot 7mm rem mag and feel nervous loading even close to the max. ...

Hey Bob, First off I totally agree with Paul H and Stonecreek. My main reason for doing so is because you are still fairly new to Reloading and simply may not be aware of all the various Pressure Indicators.

I just mentioned to "Jon" in a separate Thread that my current 7mmRemMag reaches a SAFE MAX Load a full 4gr less than a previous 7mmRemMag I had. If I had just tossed the old Load in the new rifle and began shooting, I probably would have had to hammer the bolt open. This new one won't quite reach the Loads hhown in the various Reloading Manuals, but it doesn't concern me at all. The Game still dies just as if it had an additional 50-65fps and it is accurate.

Many beginners seems to think "Loading Hot" is the sign of a Great Reloader. In actuality, that is full of beans, and is the surest indicator of a real Rookie. When people finally understand Internal Ballistics, they then know why "Loading Hot" is foolish in many aspects.

Your being "nervous" about loading near MAX may or may not be justified. In the situation with a 7mmRemMag, Never Load Below the Loads shown in the Reloading Manuals. You can also get into serious Pressure Problems if you load too low with a "Slow Powder".

Your questions are excellent, just don't be offended by the answers.

quote:

Originally posted by ruger22com:
use...he said his were VERY hot...and way beyond the maximum loads the manuals allow.
And that this type of load is needed to get that 175gr. round out 1,000 yards and on target.
Bob

I wouldn't take too much notice of your mate.
What's wrong with starting with a safe load and
trying it. If your bullets go thru the target
sideways (keyhole), gradually up your loads until they arrive point first, accurate, and
still safe in your rifle, which the experenced
will be able to tell from your brass, extraction
problems etc.
At 900 yards with a .223 i've had 69gr Sierras
keyhole thru the target, but still hitting the
bulleye.
John L.

Thanks guys...those were some great answers that I'm sure will be helpfull to newer guys like me. I usually load (and have found best accuracy) at 2 grains below max using 4350 and h1000. And now I know to stick with-in the published specs.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I'd say the guy is an idiot. If the 7mm rem mag doesn't produce the velocity you need, then get a longer barrel and chamber for a bigger case. Then you can safely achieve the desired velocity.

Unfortunately there is plenty of bad advice about loading hot, and those that promote loading hot have no idea how hot their loads are, nor how those loads will damage their guns over time.

Absolutely agree

quote:

this brings up the question of how far beyond the manuals maximum load can you go and still feel safe about your loads?

How does NONE sound!!!!!.....This round is already pushing 65,000 PSI in factory rounds....

I suspect your friend is somewhat of an expert and knows what he is talking about where he is concerned, I know many benchresters and 1000 yard shooters that would agree with him, but these guys have been at it for many years and know from experience where the red spot is....there are so many varibles that you must understand such as fast and slow bores, thick and thin brass, case triming, neck reaming, primer understanding, and the individual rifles that may have a 0 tolerance throat or a throat as long as a number two pencil! ...

I have a certain rifle with a long throat, a fast barrel that will shoot 8 grs. of H414 over book max, but book max takes into account the many rifles of the same caliber that are of poor quality steel...In my gun its still mild and cases last for 14 loadings. these guys like your friend understand this..you do not.

In your case, being a new reloader, do not do this, learn the game from one end to the other and then and only then use your own judgement..until then stay with the manuals and their advise, they have a built in safty program to keep from dealing with litagations...

Those variables undoubtedly include a generous chamber, and a long throat. This isn Weatherby's secret to high velocities.

But with a 7mm Mag, you do not need to exceed max loads to do well at 1000 yards. 7mm Mag bullets are supersonic at that distance and do not need to be pushed any faster.

Some rounds are borderline at 1000 yards. They transition from supersonic to subsonic velocities and produce erratic groups. As long as you stay over 1100 FPS at that distance, you should not have any problems.

1000 yard shots are nothing for a normal 30/06 or .308. The military shoot it all the time with these rifles. As far as loading WAY beyond maximun is concerned a person's brain would have to be way beyond normal to try it. The Japs shot 1000 yards with the old 7.7 sniper rifles all the time.

I kind of figure someone would pick up on my post outside of Ray. 1000yd shooting has two classes light weight 16.1/2 lbs and heavier average weight 34lbs and there is a factory class. Gre-tan rifle two years ago weight over 100 lbs. Most 1000yd shooter plus alot of the Br group push the limits even with the 6ppc. What would be a safe load in a factory 7mag wouldn't work in the 1000yd game. First off you don't see alot of 7mags just not alot of good bullets. Any one who shoots one just has to have a love affair with the 7mm.
If your putting together a 1000yd rifle figure above $4000. If I was going to use a 7mag probably blow the case out alittle just make alittle more case capacity for those heavy bullets. Don't get me wrong I'm not defending the practice on a factory rifle but I've got different reloading manauls same bullet weight same powder(case using less than 40grs of powder) I see some difference of 8/10% between manuals so who's max is right.

I too am just getting into the 1000 yd game Ruger22. Initially I had some 175 SMK loaded with Varget for my 308, loaded by the book. I had done some load testing at 100 yds to find an acurate load, but never shot these at 1000 yd. I started looking for a 1000 yd load and found a lot of people are using charges well above the published max in my manuals. My first time out I figured I would just go ahead and shoot what I had then try some of the "hot" loads that were reccomended to me for my next time out. I was truly impressed with how I did my first time. After we finished I spoke to the guy pulling my targets and he said my rounds were "coming in hard". I told him that I had been concerned about them having the velocity needed for those ranges and he said that I had more than enough to stay supersonic at 1000. Based on my limited experience I would reccomend loading by the book, maybe stay with the heavier charges. Try them out, it may surprise you. If they don't stay supersonic adjust from there.

Keep in mind that velocity is not the only concern, grouping is as well. If you are shooting a 1 inch group at 100 yards, that same group turns into 10 inches at 1000 yards. When you work up loads also look for the smallest group you can get.