I am very seasoned, cautious, and anal at hand loading rifle ammo. Brand new at pistol/revolver ammo. I need a seasoned look over the shoulder.

Question:
.44 mag, 1st time "re-loaded" R+P brass, cleaned, lubed and sized correctly; When seating, I see a slight expantion of the case wall thoughout the seating and prior to reaching OAL seating depth. Drops in the cylinder nice.

Choices:
Is this 'slight bulge' normal to see for str8 wall revolver brass???
Could I be over re-sizeing the brass???

 

You are probably sizing more than necesary. I use carbide size dies for handgun ammo, I only size as far as the bullet is going to go in. After seating the bullets I use a Lee factory crimp die with a carbide ring at the mouth which ensures the catrage will chamber.
Lyle

I can see the grease grooves and the bottom of the boolit on the brass of my most accurate loads. Good case tension= good groups.

This is what proper case tension will give you. I shot the right group last week and the left one today. I used my old SBH, the RD 265 gr boolit, Felix lube, 22 gr of 296, sized .459", Federal 150 primers, water dropped WW metal and I use Hornady dies with just enough crimp to hold a boolit. I have been holding 1-1/4" at 100 yd's. I had some left and Bioman tore a can to hell at 100 yd's.
Crimp will NOT save you with poor case tension. The Lee FCD just ruins brass.

Well I use ONLY RCBS dies and have a good roll crimp. I just need to know that this is not a bad thing and might be a somewhat normal accurrance.

Notice these were 50 yd groups and that is my starting distance for all revolvers. NO 25 yd shooting at all, waste of time and lead!
These are poor compared to what my BFR revolvers shoot.
In all of the years I have belonged to this forum, not a single person has ever posted his groups after saying how great his gun shoots.
How and what you load is more important then the gun you have. I showed my friends from the sites how to load and with their better eyes and younger shake free bodies, they are out shooting me. I feel that is wonderful! I feel sad when so many have pre-conceived notions about revolvers and read gun rags where groups at 25 yd's from a ransom rest are worse then we get at 100.
Whitworth is shooting liter bottles shot after shot at 85 yd's with open sights--OFF HAND!
Our revolvers are out shooting most rifles to 200 yd's and my BFR's do that to 500 meters. Pay attention to how you load, not how many you load. One perfect shot beats spray and pray every time.

Are you belling the mouth of the case before seating the bullet?

Is your bullet going into the case straight?

After you have the bullet seated will the round slide into the chamber without any problem?

If the answer to all of the above is yes, then you are probably OK.

quote:

Posted 16 February 2009 09:28 Hide Post
Well I use ONLY RCBS dies and have a good roll crimp. I just need to know that this is not a bad thing and might be a somewhat normal accurrance.

If you have the carbide dies and the expander is not too large so you have good neck tension, keep doing what you are doing. I dumped my regular RCBS dies because the expanders were too long and too large in diameter.
Your boolit needs to be hard enough so it is not sized when seating it. Let it bulge the brass instead of the brass making the boolit smaller.
The Hornady dies have a short expander that only goes in the case about 3/8" and does not open the brass too much at the top. The base of the boolit is actually going into brass that is sized but NOT expanded.
Start with a boolit that is a tight fit through the throats and STAYS that way when seated.
The roll crimp is fine as is a profile crimp. Just don't depend on it to make loads accurate. Use only enough so the fifth or sixth boolit does not move from recoil, no more. Rely on case tension for an even powder burn.

to bfrshooter; this is loaded for an "old" model Ruger Blackhawk. A 5 digit "Flattop" to be exact. A 40-50 yrd 'pump station' shot on an average boar is plenty for me. And to

and to SD Shooter; Belling, yes. Str8 case entry, yes. and the finished load slides nice into the cylinder. Mabe not a bad thing ? .....

quote:

to bfrshooter; this is loaded for an "old" model Ruger Blackhawk. A 5 digit "Flattop" to be exact. A 40-50 yrd 'pump station' shot on an average boar is plenty for me. And to

I had one in 1956 and shot it many years. Wonderful gun and it would do the same as my SBH does now. How I miss that gun! I envy you!

I love this old school SA. I bought this flat-top for $600 about 15 years ago. Made in 1958 and "floored" a bull elk 6 years ago. Cant run with a cavity thru both lungs! Oh the memory. Shall I send a pic? HA HA HA

Oh, single shot thru the engine block BTW

Hey bfrshooter, That's some mighty fine shooting. Seriously doubt I could do that well at 25yds with my old 44Mag today, even if I had a lucky streak.

quote:

Posted 16 February 2009 17:22 Hide Post
Hey bfrshooter, That's some mighty fine shooting. Seriously doubt I could do that well at 25yds with my old 44Mag today, even if I had a lucky streak.

But you really can. Many of you blame the gun or yourself when it is just how you load. Factory loads do not do a gun justice either.
I am not a genius or super shot! I just know my boolit is going where the sights are, hit or miss depending on me. It is wonderful to call every shot at any range instead of pulling your hair when a boolit goes somewhere else.
I have the old article about the minute of angle revolver. They spent thousands to have a special revolver built and went through hundreds of loads and bullets just to shoot a 1" group at 100 yd's. I shoot less then 1" at 100 with an out of box BFR.
You don't know fun until you can hit beer cans at 200 yd's! When how you hold, squeeze the trigger or how good your vision is are the only limits to what a revolver will do, you will have a huge smile all the time.
Go back to the loading bench and do some more thinking. Don't believe all you read unless proof is shown.
It really is a lot easier then you think it is.
I try to help and post all the time to only get bucked by some with a better way, yet I never see proof. I am NOT afraid to post pictures, good or bad.
I watched Bob Munden break a balloon at 200 yd's with a snub nose .38. Not only is he a great shot but do you believe he just shoots any old ammo? He knows exactly where his boolits go!
I don't care if you have a $5000 custom revolver or a used $200 Ruger, it is what you feed it that counts.
Some guns just won't shoot though. Friends bring $2000 guns and I just can't make them shoot. Every powder, bullet, boolit in the world and 3" at 50 yd's is the best they will do. Time to sell the gun!
I bought a Ruger Hunter with a Bisley grip. It would not do better then 1-1/2" at 50. Hurt my knuckle too. I sold it. Bioman bought one with the regular grip and is shooting 1/2" groups at 50. Some guns just don't cut it but unless you load right, you will never know.

Here is a BAD $2000 revolver. Three barrels and two cylinders later and this is what an individual chamber test did at 50 yd's.

Here is a $300 Ruger at 200 yd's.

Average .475 BFR groups at 50 yd's with different boolits.

Groups from my 45-70 BFR at 50 yd's testing different boolits. Notice the one sighter group for deer is 5 shots in 7/16" and the large group is 10 shots.

Dutchboy........You're seeing exactly what you want to see in your reloads.......Good strong case grip on the bullet. Grant.

I shot this can 5 times with my BFR 45-70 at 100 yd's. That is the hole in the top. I had to walk down and set up the can after every shot.
The other holes are from a friends .45 ACP rifle.
Now you know why any group over 1" at 50 yd's torques my jaw.
I have hundreds of groups but I think this is enough here.

Photobucket screwed up. here is the can.

Hey Oldmodel70, Thank you for the support. And bfrshooter, your giving me a standard to meet with iron sights. I have friends that hand load but they are not as anal as I. New to this forum site but already love it. Thanks for all the good input

Almost forgot, Im in the market for a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull. The ballistics look pretty good and I can plink w/ .45 Colt. Is this a good choice or should I look at one of the other large Mag revolver cartridges??? Im a huge fan of Ruger by the way...

Dutch:

I load for 3 different flat-top .44 Blackhawks (the orignal standard model with fluted cylinder and 6 1/2" barrel). RCBS dies. What you describe is entirely normal.
---------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Posted 16 February 2009 21:20 Hide Post
Almost forgot, Im in the market for a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull. The ballistics look pretty good and I can plink w/ .45 Colt. Is this a good choice or should I look at one of the other large Mag revolver cartridges??? Im a huge fan of Ruger by the way...

See if you can find the .480. Wonderful cartridge. The .454 is a pain to reload. I swear they screwed up a fine caliber with a small rifle primer. My next choice would be the SRH .44.
My top choice for a do all gun is still the BFR .475. It is really an over grown Ruger with perfect dimensions.

Good. Now, what kind of accuracy should I expect with my 'like new' flat-top. The load; Nosler 300 gr. JHP , 15.5 gr. Alliant 2400. I started at about 8% shy of max. What grain increment pattern do I try? To find accuracy, I use 2 tenths of a grain for .22-250 and 1/2 grain increments for my 7mm WSM. But revolver loads are so low of a powder charge that Im not sure what the pattern should be as far as climbing or falling grain weight per trial load...

bfrshooter:
You're not aware of it but I just bacame your best friend. I'd never want you ticked off at me. Wonderful shooting.

Dutchboy:
I too voted for the bulge being normal. That's what I see in my .44 reloads. I think everything's fine with your loads.
Bear in Fairbanks

2400 has a very narrow range, like 1 gr from min to max with a 300 gr bullet. I shot it years ago until 296 came out. I only fool with 1/2 gr increments with 296 but 2400 needs very small changes and weather conditions can negate a 1 or 2 tenths grain change. I never get the extreme accuracy with 2400 and it is far more dirty then 296. 2400 is a little too fast for heavy bullets.
If you want real extreme accuracy from the .44, 4227 is even better but do NOT get the gun warm. The gun has to stay dead cold with the stuff or pressure and velocity will rise with each shot and you will hit lower and lower at the target and primers will get flatter and flatter. 5 slow shots are max, then the gun has to sit a long time, out of the sun. If you shoot a lot of fast shots you will keep looking at the gun to see what broke.
296 has proven to be the most stable. The BH's and SRH shoot the best with it. H110 does not do well and I found it only works in the Redhawk, the RH does not like 296.
Two more important things, you need good case tension and do NOT use magnum primers in the .44 or .45 Colt even with 296 unless you shoot in sub zero temperatures. Unlike the small rifle mag primer in the .454 that can fail to ignite 296, the Federal 150 primer will light off 296 very smoothly. I don't need a Fed 155 LP mag primer until I get to the .475 and 45-70. Yes, both have LR pockets but LP primers are 100% better.
You want to avoid primer PRESSURE in the .44. It can blow the tightest bullet out of the brass into the barrel BEFORE the powder gets a good ignition. All you want is HEAT!
In the .45, the WLP primers work OK, just don't go to a full blown mag primer.

Hey Bear,
Now how does a Ruger Vaquero shoot at 50 yd's with a lyman boolit that weighs 347 gr, with 21.5 gr of 296 and the Fed 150 primer? I dropped deer to over 100 yd's off hand with this wonderful little revolver. Would you believe this gun will shoot through a 16" diameter tree?

quote:

bfrshooter:
You're not aware of it but I just bacame your best friend. I'd never want you ticked off at me. Wonderful shooting.

Me too!

(I fired a 44mag Rossi break action (or was it a NEF?) this week-end. That after watching these two fellows shooting it - I was really impressed! Open sights and real tight groups right were you aim them. I only fired one shot and hit my point of aim. A real nice carbine caliber. I was hoping to retrieve my 44mag single action revolver to convert into a carbine with suppressor to bring the barrel up to legal length but alas, it has been stolen! Robbed, actually).

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

Hey Bear,
Now how does a Ruger Vaquero shoot at 50 yd's with a lyman boolit that weighs 347 gr, with 21.5 gr of 296 and the Fed 150 primer? I dropped deer to over 100 yd's off hand with this wonderful little revolver. Would you believe this gun will shoot through a 16" diameter tree?

I'm a believer, I'm a believer!!!!
BIF

Go to the post about "doughnuts" and see a few pictures I posted about bullet seating and new brass. It will open your eyes a little more.
I hate new brass and think the more it is shot, the more consistent it gets, up to a point of course. Some cases never get right and need sorted out.
Brass will make or break groups faster then any other component.
I hope this helps you fellas!

303guy, yes a rifle in .44 is fun but stay away from the Marlin. They still have a stupid 1 in 38" twist. Totally wrong for a .44.
Rifles are easier, the revolver is the hardest gun to make loads work in. It took me 20 years to figure out the problems and I am still not happy after 53 years.
My goal is a one hole group!