I wish to reload .444 Marlin brass for use in a .410 gauge shotgun. You may ask why ? well I just like the look of the nice shiny brass shells I suppose.

I realise this topic was discussed a few months back & water glass was the suggested sealant for the end of the completed cartridge.

Unfortunately here in Australia my local chemist can`t supply me with any. Is there an alternative to water glass as a sealant for the end of the completed cartridge.

I`ve read articles on reloading shotshells & the respective authors make reference to wad pressure created by the press when reloading. How critical is this with regard to loading in a full length brass shell ?

The standard .410 Winchester petal type wads are to small in diameter to be of any use in the .444 Marlin brass. Should I try & make my own wads to fill the gap between powder & shot in order to give me the correct length of powder shot/column. Or should I just seat all this as low as it will go in the case ?
What would I be a recommended material to make the wads from ?

Finally what weight shot should I use in front of 14 gn of Win 296 ?

Thanks in advance for any advice on the above.

Cheers Morton

morton3;
When this subject came up earlier, I gave it a try!
I used the 410 wads and they worked quite well! I fired a couple of them in my 410 single-shot and also a couple in my 444 Marlin! Both worked quite well!
The loads I fired in the Marlin had a noticably larger patern! The loads fired in the 410 shot well, the only significant thing I noticed was that the 444 brass expanded to a point where it was very noticable, but I didn't have a problem resizing it again!

I used a 44 caliber gas check "inverted" (skirt towards the shot) to seal the case mouth!
Just put a light roll crimp on it and it will hold the gas check and shot in place!

Morton, I've not done what you are talking about but would offer a few thoughts for your consideration. Loading shot in the .444 cases has been written up a number of times in the shooting media, no big mystery to it. What most do in this endeavor is use card wads cut with a .444 case that has been chamfered inside and out. Use it like a cookie cutter, works fine. I know this to be true as I make overpowder wads for my rifle paper patch loads in the same manner. You can make your own felt wads in the same manner, use 20 0r 28 gauge wads as you wish. By the way, it isn't a gentle process. Put the material on a piece of scrap wood and hit the case SHARPLY with a hammer.

It would be difficult to answer your question about shot charge suitable for your powder charge. It seems a bit backwards to me. Try some .410 load data for comparison, see what it says. Your .444 will handle any .410 loads, regarless of the pressure they generate. A .410 will not necessarily handle .444 loads. Start off with one of those loads, then go from there.

To clarify something you may not understand... The sizing of cases has nothing to do with putting pressure on the shot/powder column. Column pressure is used to ensure proper ignition and overall length of the column prior to crimping. As a general rule slower powders in smaller gauges are more critical in this regard than not. More on this later.

The one thing I specifically recommend that you NOT do is use water glass. It may be fine for chromed barrels but it can and will scratch steel. In any case, it is not necessary to hold your charge column in place. Crimp it with your seating die.

The purpose of wads in a shotshell is to seal the gases from the powder charge, to cushion the shot and reduce deformation, and last but not least, to provide the proper length to the charge column. As an example, your powder charge may, upon compression, be .35" long. Your shot column may be .9" long, those two giving you a total of 1.25". Well, if the internal length of your case in 2.1" in length you need to make up the difference with card wads and/or felt wads. Needing .85" of filler in this case, you might find that if your card wads are .125" in thickness, and felt is .25" in thickness(compressed), then you would have to use a combination that gives a resonable approximation of your requirments. Say 5 card wads(5/8") and one felt(1/4") which leaves you with a total of 7/8", or more precisely, .875".
That's close enough for our purposes. How you stack them is up to you. I'd start out with 2 or 3 overpowder card wads, then a felt, another card wad, then a final card wad over the shot. You may wish to use 2 felt wads instead thus eliminating two of the card wads, it is up to you.

Now, the trick to crimping them is to be able to compress the load mildly as it is crimped. Do this by putting a sub caliber bullet, or wooden dowel or about anything you want atop the final overshot card wad before you crimp it. A very short one by the way. You will need to raise the seating stem high in the die as all you want to do is force the column down a bit as the roll crimper does its job. It will take a bit of fiddling to get it the way you want, but in the end you will find what you need. It is entirely possible that you might be able to use just the seating stem by turning it down far enough to do your bidding, but that would depend upon how much travel the stem adjustment of your die has.

Well, hope this helps you out. You might also make note of the fact that you can load 3 .430 round balls in the .444 case. Use an overpowder card wad, powder charge suitable for the weight(about 360 grains IIRC), roll crimp the top ball slightly above the full diameter. It may surprise you how well it shoots out to about 50-75 yards in the .444, but I don't know about using it in a .410. You'd probably want to consider sizing them down to...maybe .410". It is a lethal load on hogs. Done properly you may expect groups of 5-8 inches at 50 yards, and they should function thru a Marlin lever action.

quote:

The one thing I specifically recommend that you NOT do is use water glass. It may be fine for chromed barrels but it can and will scratch steel. In any case, it is not necessary to hold your charge column in place. Crimp it with your seating die.

Not trying to talk down to anyone who reads this, but I think it works this way: water glass is sodium silicate, (Na2SiO3, if I remember right from HS Chemistry) in a water solution. Glass is silicon dioxide (SiO2, or sand) that has heated to the melting point and allowed to cool. When the water evaporates from the liquid, you are left with Silicon dioxide (sand/glass) and sodium oxide, if memory serves. Neither is particularly kind to steel...
And fwiw, I have used both cardboard wads and gas checks in shot loads for the .41 Magnum. Both work extremely well, but I would use cardboard wads. The gas check, especially if inverted, robs the case of shot capacity, IMO. You have to be a bit gentle with the crimp or you will bend the cardboard over-shot wad, but if done correctly, these are very effective loads for rats and snakes, etc.

quote:

I used a 44 caliber gas check "inverted" (skirt towards the shot) to seal the case mouth!
Just put a light roll crimp on it and it will hold the gas check and shot in place!

I've used this making .44 Mag shotshells in the revolver for snakes. It works well I might add.

I use a gas check above the powder cupped foreward and another over the shot cupped backward and sealed by crimping over the gas check.

vapodog
I plan on making shot loads for my 475 Linebaugh in this same manner. How much and what kind of powder are you using? Also how much shot, this will give me a guide for the 475.
I used to load shotshels for the 44 but I used the speer shot capsules.

Try using an electric hot glue gun to seal a topcard in place, in stead of waterglass.

Hog Killer