Greetings all,

First time posting - just joined. I hope I have posted this to the correct area.

I have a Ruger MKII Stainless 7mm Rem Mag (1:9.5 twist). I purchased this several years ago when I was hunting whitetails on a farm taking long range shots, 250+ yards. I wanted one rifle that would do that but also allowed me to use on larger game whenever I get the chance to head out west for Elk, Mules, etc. I know that for Whitetails alone it is a bit over kill.

A buddy of mine who got me into reloading started me off on several powders to see what would shoot the best. That turned out to be the IMR4320 w/ 53gr, CCI Mag primers and a 160gr SBT. This past season, the guy I have been hunting with (not the re-loader), told me the the round I was using was, "overkill, and that the bullet was too heavy; will risk leaving an entrance and exit hole, and not doing damage on the inside. He suggested that I use a 139gr and using a "compact load" (He is a big Hornady fan)

My 13 yo son and I really enjoy reloading (he shoots a 6mm). I do not have the $ to purchase a wide variety of powders to experiment with, but totally understand the physics involved in the transfer of the bullet's KE to the deer using a lighter bullet.

So, I am interested in trying a compacted load but cannot find anything in the Speer manual I have. Has anyone out there know of or have had a similar situation and found a recipe that works for them (even a similar past post?).

Many thanks - glad to have found this informative forum.

Best,

Alpsman

Good morning Alpsman, and welcome!

There's a lot of thoughts & maybe more than a few questions in your post. To answer the easiest (and maybe the only one I'm competant to answer ) is, Yes, there is a search function, which I'll be by now you're already plugging away at. There's TONS of good posts & info going back the better part of 13+ years, and you'll find lots of conversation re: 7mag.

The bad news is that traffic on the forum has dried up lately; the good news is that most posters still frequenting AR are the real deal.

In doing a search, you'll find RL 22 & IMR 7828 to be mentioned often w/7mm Rem Mag. People seem pleased with the velocity & accuracy these provide.

As to your acquaintaince's preference for "just an entrace hole," you'll find most people here advocate two holes, the better to let blood!

Lastly, you mention wishing to find a load that will cover whitetail to elk. I think that's a smart idea; were you to develop one load for whitetail and a different load for elk, I will tell you it's a LOT more fuss & trouble than it would appear. Sometimes 1+1 does = 3!

Enjoy the board,

friar

A rifle and a bullet made for elk cant go wrong for whitetail if it is a regular softpoint 160gr. The energi what is not needed will just exit the deer, if it wouldn`t you had a lot of destroyed meat. A 140gr bullet of though contruction can do the same and be downloaded a bit or/and have a little flater trajectory.
I use my .308w with premium bullets 165-180gr for moose, boar,deer and roe deer.

Welcome. You'll find a wealth of information here and a lot of really good guys too. There's very little of the crap found on most forums. That's why this is the only forum I actively participate on. But to your question.

The simple answer: if the load you're using shoots well in your rifle and has performed well, just keep using it. I prefer to have one load for a rifle that will handle everything I will do or need to be doing with that rifle. For example, in my .30-06, it's a 168 TSX on a max load of RL19. If I should be doing it with a .30 cal, that load will do it.

The longer answer is your friend is bringing up the "two holes in the animal" argument versus the "dump all it's energy in the animal" argument; he's just not quite calling it that. Neither is right nor wrong. And neither really casts the question correctly. Animals die because tissue destruction to either the circulatory system (heart and lungs) or the central nervous system (spine) causes the animal to cease functioning---i.e. living.

I prefer the bullet exit because (1) it means I've done destruction in and through the animal and (2) it probably means a good blood trail to follow. (I've had animals run over 50 yards with a TSX through the lungs.)

On the other hand, a bullet that does not exit the animals, especially a smaller deer size one, has probably so violently fragmented inside the animal that the tissue destruction to the heart and lungs is incredible.

Several years ago, I went on a doe cull hunt. I used my .375H&H with 300 grain TSX. Another fellow used a .22-250 with 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. We both killed deer very effectively. Mine had huge holes in and out with blood trails that Stevie Wonder could follow. His had thoracic cavities filled with purple goo. (Putting a 50 grain BT into a 75 pound whitetail doe's engine room generates a very messy result.) But my setup was the more versatile of the two.

So, my two cents: if your present load is working well for you, stick with it. There's nothing wrong with what he's suggesting but you'll lose versatility---i.e. might have to pass on shots you could with your current setup and might need an entirely different load for larger critters.

LWD

Alpsman,

Welcome!

In a 7mm Rem Mag a 160 gr. bullet is @ optimum IMO; good weight, smacks hard with downrange velocity; about as good as it gets in your cartridge for sure. If it kills stuff good; don't fuss with an up & operating system.

As for powders though; there are many more optimal powders for a 7mm Rem Mag & your bullet than IMR-4320. Since your son is shooting a 6mm ..... (6mm Remington or 243 Win?) there are a number of powders that will enhance the performance in both of these cartridges; the 7mm Rem Mag w/160 grainers and a 6mm w/100 gr.

quote:

I do not have the $ to purchase a wide variety of powders to experiment with

I'd go with 1 can to test in both; either H-4831, H-4831sc, H-1000, IMR-4831, IMR-7828, IMR-7828ssc, Rl-22, AA-3100, plenty of loads available for each cartridge.

For years I've used a 160 gr. Sierra HPBT GameKing with 58.0 grs. of H-4831sc O.A.L 3.29" which is a pretty mild load as far as my Savage 7mm Rem Mag Tactical is involved (work up yourself) and it'll plunck Deer right out where you were shooting them at 250 yds. & beyond. The same powder with 100 grain bullet-oes in pretty much any standard 6mm cartridge will deliver great results as well.

A 160 will often do less damage than a light bullet and will almost for sure exit. As to your 4320 that would be one of the last powders I would consider for a 7mag. That is a VERY LIGHT load.

Unless you want seperate elk and deer loads then stay with your 160s. I sure would look to a much slower powder. I've had excellent results with something like RL 22 in both the 7mag and 6mm. At least slow down to the 4831 range.

Alpsman, your hunting buddy doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. Your 160 gr. Sierra will do a fabulous job on deer. It should do a good job on elk too if you don't hit heavy bone at close range. I use the 160 Sierra and 160 Nosler AccuBond interchangeably in my 7 Rem. mag. Same point of impact. I would trust the AccuBond more on larger game. I'm loading 65.5 grs. of RL-22, Federal 215 primer. WW, RP, Norma and Hornady cases. I was loading 66 grs., but went to 65.5 after chronographing because I thought that 3,000 fps. was fast enough. Chronographed velocity is 3020 fps. out of my 24" barrel, was 3060 fps with 66 grs.
I'll be using this bullet for the first time on elk about the middle of January on a late season private ranch cull hunt. I'll post the results. Others have posted very good results with this bullet on deer and elk. If anything I would think your Sierra bullet might expand too fast to suit you, but it definitely won't go in and out without expanding unless you hit one at maybe 1,000 yards.
PS. This load gives me sub-moa groups out of my sporter weight barreled Remington with both bullets.
PPS. These are maximum loads that are quoted. Reduce listed powder charge to 62 grains and work up carefully and don't seat your bullet right against the lands. I'm using a .030" bullet jump.

Alpsman, Ramrod 340's advice is spot on. With 4320 you won't get anymore velocity than you could get out of a 270 or 280. If you want a 7 mag. you have to go to the slower powders. RL-22 will also give top velocity and good accuracy in the 6mm.

Wow Gents,

Much appreciate the rapid replies and recommendations. I am sure more replies will occur as the evening continues - many thanks to those that do.

Sounds like the best medicine is more research. Thanks on the info on the 160gr bullet. I've been doing 3" groups of 4 at 100 yards off the bench with this load (standing and off the knee is a disaster though ), so I was not real eager to change. However the discussion my bud and I had made me re-visit my college physics class and the kinetic energy portion made sense (I am Type A). My son uses IMR4350 for his rounds and I was wondering if we could just consolidate.

Anyway, I must do some more research on the burn rates of powders as well. Regarding compacted powder, does that mean I should be trying a slower burning powder to compact the load (mine has a lot of air in it as the powder is loose)? RL-22, etc?

Thanks again Gents, glad to be here amongst such knowledge and class people.

Best,

Alpsman

quote:

had made me re-visit my college physics class and the kinetic energy portion made sense

Yes energy is mass times velocity squared. So a little velocity gain has a large impact on energy. However often you are better off giving up a touch of energy for penetration, SD etc.

Most times a light high velocity bullet will do more meat damage than a slower one. Too light and too fast and you can blow up on impact.

I kind of like a bullet to give up the last of its energy as it just leaves the other side vs in the first 1/4 of the wound.

I'm guessing your 4320 load is in the 2750+/- range. I can basically do that with a 7x57. Leaves 2-300 fps on the table. If it was a one hole group that would be one thing a 3" group I would look for somethng else.

I prefer to find a powder that just fills my available space. A touch of compression is not an issue. I try and stay away from the long trop tube and vibration plus bullet compression if I can.

While 4350 is better (in my opinion) than 4320 I would still look slower. A max load of RL22 with your 160s will be around 99% of capacity.

Welcome to AR.

Welcome Alpsman!

The 160's of whatever brand shoots best in your rifle is what I would stick with. Two holes are always better than one, more blood to follow.

Ask your friend, what exactly is "overkill"? Does the load you are shooting kill deer more dead than they need to be? How dead is dead?

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
Alpsman, your hunting buddy doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. Your 160 gr. Sierra will do a fabulous job on deer. It should do a good job on elk too if you don't hit heavy bone at close range. I use the 160 Sierra and 160 Nosler AccuBond interchangeably in my 7 Rem. mag. Same point of impact. I would trust the AccuBond more on larger game. I'm loading 65.5 grs. of RL-22, Federal 215 primer. WW, RP, Norma and Hornady cases. I was loading 66 grs., but went to 65.5 after chronographing because I thought that 3,000 fps. was fast enough. Chronographed velocity is 3020 fps. out of my 24" barrel, was 3060 fps with 66 grs. Chronographed velocity is 3020 fps. out of my 24" barrel, was 3060 fps with 66 grs.
I'll be using this bullet for the first time on elk about the middle of January on a late season private ranch cull hunt. I'll post the results. Others have posted very good results with this bullet on deer and elk. If anything I would think your Sierra bullet might expand too fast to suit you, but it definitely won't go in and out without expanding unless you hit one at maybe 1,000 yards.
PS. This load gives me sub-moa groups out of my sporter weight barreled Remington with both bullets.
PPS. These are maximum loads that are quoted. Reduce listed powder charge to 62 grains and work up carefully and don't seat your bullet right against the lands. I'm using a .030" bullet jump.

I'm getting almost identical results with my 7mag, which has a 26" Remington barrel. RL 22 is the most versatile powder I've found for 140-162 gr bullets in both of my 7mags. I'd try the partition and accubond both.

Like Friarmieier said 7828 or RL22. It is hard to knock a 160 gr bullet in any 7 mag but there is also a very good all round bullet that is particularly good in the 7mm Rem. Take a serious look at the new Barnes 150 gr TTSX bullet with 7828. You will not be sorry.