Well I have my first 22 Hornet on the way. Now I am researching load data and info to get started.

I have read where some have had much success using small pistol primers instead of small rifle. This is a good thing since I have lots of pistols that use a small primer but all my rifles use the large size.

Now I am wondering if anyone has any experience using a Lee factory crimp Die, in this caliber. Have they helped or hurt the accuracy in your experience?

I use them on several pistol calibers and my 30-30’s with good results.

What do you all think?

I use small pistol magnum primers and Lil Gun powder or W296, the heaviest bullet which performs very well for me is the Win 46 HP. Mostly the light V-max for fun and varmits.

There is not harm in trying the small pistol primers, but don't start with top loads.

I feel that the small case volume doesn't require such a large spark. Better accuracy results.

I have no experience with the Lee products.

I use small pistol primers and 12.6g of Lil Gun with any bullet less than 50g. You can't get more than 13g in the case, but I found 12.6 is great in mine. Lil Gun should be great for brass life especially with lighter bullets---the pressure is very low. The Hodgdon website as some pressure information with their load data.

Many people will tell you they get better performance with the small pistol rather than small rifle primer because of the minuscule amount of powder in the Hornet. It really is a lot more like a pistol cartridge than a rifle cartridge.

I don't crimp, but some people will tell you it promotes more uniform ignition. You might try without first.

Mine is a Savage 40. It has a strong preference for lighter bullets. If you are varminting with it you should consider more frangible bullets like the Hornady SPSX series or bullets especially for the Hornet. The velocity just isn't high enough to fragment many bullets.

LWD

I have three Hornets I load for. I was using small rifle primers until someone advised me to use smal pistol primers about 6 years ago. So, now I use the small pistol primers, or Rem 6 1/2's, exclusively. I also have a Lee crimp die that I use to crimp bullets. I'm not sure what good it does as I've never done a before and after test. But, with 13.0 gns of Lil-Gun powder and 45 gn Sierra Hornet bullets, I get good accuracy; 3 shots in about 1/2 to 3/4" groups at 100 yards using the crimp die and small pistol primers.
H-110 also shoots well using 10.2 gns of it, all else the same. But it only shoots well in one of my rifles, and all shoot the Lil-Gun loads well. Never been able to get any kind of good accuracy with the light weight pointy nose bullets, just the Sierra 45 grainer.

Lil gun has always given me very erratic velocities. I prefer AA1680.

As to primers, there is nothing WRONG with using SP primers. In fact their thinner/softer cups will provide you early warning if you are reaching marginally high pressures in a Hornet. On the other hand, I have never found any accuracy improvement with them over SR primers, so use whichever you wish.

I've always wondered what it is that reloaders hope to accomplish with crimped bullets? I can understand this practice when the ammunition is used in an autoloader which might tend to unseat the bullet during feeding, or with an extreme recoiling round such as a magnum pistol round. But with a Hornet? I suspect it is of no benefit at best and counterproductive at worst.

I shoot the very same load as 308sako; in Savage model #40. Fine combo, good shooting enjoy the summer. Jack

Small pistol primers, and Lilgun, are the way to go in a Hornet. Even Federal uses spp in the factory Hornet load.

I do not crimp. I use a Lee Collet die to neck size.

Using Lilgun, I've found, as Stonecreek mentioned, wide velocity swings, especially with bullets lighter than 45gr. The heavier bullets tend to lower the SD's. Accuracy is very good though.

When adjusting powders charges, I do it in .2grs increments, due to the small case. A little goes a long way.

I load for 4 different Hornets; Ruger #3, Savage M40, Contender 21" and Contender 10". I concur that LilGun gives erratic velocities with bullets lighter that 45 gr. A 4 of my rifles shoot sub moa (the M40 and TC 21" shoot in the .5s) with RP cases, WSP primers and 12.6 gr LilGun with the Hornady 45 gr Hornet bullet. Velocity is excellent as is accuracy.

A couple other suggestions; neck size the cases as this keeps the necks straight. I use a Redding Bushing die but the Lee Collet also works well. Dragging an expander button back through the thin neck can cause concentricity problems. Another thing I do to avoid crushed case mouths when seating bullets is to take the extra step of running the cases into a Lyman M-die just enough that the bullets start into the case mouths. Since doing this I have not crushed any case mouths. I do not crimp either, have not found it necessary.

Larry Gibson

Thanks for all the replys guys. Keep em commin!

FYI; my new rifle is a Savage mod 40 as well.

I use 12.5 grs of Lil Gun in my 14" Contender. I was having bad luck with accuracy until I switched to Rem 6 1/2 primers. My group size went to bug holes.

I seat the 40 gr Vmax's LONG in my chamber (single shot), OAL = 1.900", NO crimp.

My buddy shoots the exact same load in his Savage 40. Matter of fact I handed him some out of my ammo box to "try" in it when he got it. Same result in his rifle.

On the down side, my buddy's 40 has a big chamber. Brass swells up quite large in the web area, and he's had case head separations after 2 firings on the brass. He's since switched to neck only sizing. We'll see if that takes care of it. Just something to look for in your Savage.

I told him I'd send it back and get another one, but he's gonna try it this way first.

I'm not sure if it really helps but I use the Lee factory crimp on almost everything I load. Especially .22 Hornet and .22 K-Hornet. I've always thought the two most important factors in reloading beside consistency in everything, are a full case and bullet pull. The Lee crimp satisfies my need to do the best possible in the latter case.

I have a new Ruger K77/22-VHZ, so far in the last 3 months I been able to shoot it twice, I have put almost 200 rounds through it.
I have hand loaded 11.5 grs of Hodgdon's H110 in Winchester cases capped by CCI 500 small pistol primers and Hornady's 35gr V-MAX bullets.
This load gives me 3055 fps average and 10 shot groups are about 1.5" and 100 meters.
I have been playing with powder charge weights and bullet seating depth.
I do crimp with the Lee factory crimp die. With the vmax's hanging out of the case so far in order to get .015" off the rifling I though I should crimp just to keep the bullet in the case.
I haven't had a chance to compare crimped to no crimp yet.

I'm using Hodgdon's LIL'Gun 13.3 grains and Sierra's 45 gr "Hornet" #1210 bullet seated long to be within .015" of the rifling. Same cases and primers. This combo averaged 2789 fps and 20 shots grouped under 1.5 inches at 100 meters.
The standard deviation with LIL'Gun is high but accuracy is still good at the short range of 100 meters. I've always put a heavy max crimp on this load in an attempt to tame the high SD of LIL'Gun. So far I'm liking this load the best.

The Hornet is a lot of fun to shoot.

I have shot 22 hornets for 15 or so years, and at least 300 rounds per year.
I use federal small pistol primers, 40 grain bullets of various makes and 13.0 - 13.2 Lil Gun in Win cases.
I have never crimped any of the bullets and get excellent accuracy in my anschutz and Kimber hornets.

Lil Gun or 1680, and 35 grain V-Max's in UNCRIMPED Winchester cases, have been the best performers for me. I also have used the small pistol primers, but I have not found an advantage with either rifle or pistol primers. Shot 21 jack rabbits on the farm a week or so ago, and smoked them all. Also, I run the sizing die up a bit, so as not to move the shoulder, {if you want to call it a shoulder}, back.

Jerry

quote:

and counterproductive at worst.

Yes, remember Hornet brass is very thin.

LWD

What kind of SD are Hornet users getting with Hornady's 35 gr V-MAX and LIL'GUN powder?
I notice Hornady doesn't even list this load in their #7 manual, probably they couldn't nail down an average velocity figure.

What kind of SD are users getting with 1680 powder with this light (or heavy) bullet(s)?

My Shooting Chrony has recorded low to high velocity swings approching 200 fps while using heavier 45gr Hornet bullets and LIL'GUN powder and small pistol pimers in Winchester cases.

Seaching this and other forums on the internet a lot of people like using LIL'GUN powder and the 35gr V-MAX bullet.

As for crimping, doing so with Hornet cases loaded with LIL'GUN is rumored to help lower the SD because the thin bass case neck dosen't offer much bullet grip to stablize LIL'GUN's burn.
I can't say the crimping has lowered my SD as I haven't shot the above mention 45gr load uncrimped yet.
If it is lowering my SD the uncrimped SD must be a real horror.

With other powders with lower SD crimping is probably not necessary. Do what ever makes the load more accurate in your gun.

For me, small rifle primers, 13 grains of Lil' Gun and any bullet between 35-45 grains has been a winning combination. The 40 grain V-Max has been very accurate for me and provides better downrange performance than the 35 grain V-Max or traditional 45 grain hornet bullets. I don't crimp, but it wouldn't hurt.

Pete

quote:

What kind of SD are Hornet users getting with Hornady's 35 gr V-MAX and LIL'GUN powder?

I don't recall the Standard Deviations, but the extreme spreads on all of the Lil Gun loads I've tried were at or above 200 fps. It is true that Lil Gun produces the highest velocities in a .22 Hornet -- at least on some individual shots .

Interestingly, I tried that same lot of Lil Gun in a heavily loaded magnum handgun and found its behavior much more consistent, in fact its performance in that application was excellent.

Here's a little more info. I dug out a couple boxes of Hornet Ammo, that I had reloaded, and made some notes upon. Personally, I am always more concerned with the extreme spread from round to round, than I am with standard deviation, just me. I have had better groups with Lil Gun, than with any other powder I have tried, with 1680 right behind. Here's the data 13 Grains of Lil Gun/35 Hornady Vmax/3155fps, 63 Extreme spread. 13.8 Grains of 1680/35 Vmax/2969 Fps, 31 Extreme Spread. I have never had SD'S or ES'S as high as some of you mentioned, except in loading and shooting the 22 Jet in a revolver.


Jerry

The reason for using pistol primers is to avoid the risk of a jump-start effect, which can be present in such a small case. Its not dangerous, but can influence on the precision. The Hornet case has a very low neck-tension, so for the same reasons there is absolutely no harm done in using the Lee FCD.

Regards

Lee collet die, lil gun and a good crimp.I tried before and after with crimping and it halved the 100yd groups to a .6 average when the bullets where seated to mag length, seated touching there wasnt much in it..The high ES only showed on the chrony, on paper at 300yds there was no sign of the verticle seperation you would expect a 200fps + diference to give.Iv read that lilgun can show false readings if the chrony is a not far enough away from the muzzel,but after testing the load at range I never tried it with the chrony further away than normal.

Yawn:

What bullet are you using? One with a canalure, or just crimpping the case against a smooth bullet, like a V-Max?

Jerry

Serria 40gr hp.No canalure,the Lee FCD seems to work pretty well on any of the bullets Iv tried.A firm crimp does put an indented ring in the bullet which I guess must have a small impact on BC but not a noticeable difference .The hornet is the only round that Iv seen any real gains from crimping though.