Nosler has information on the new Accubond bullet on their web sight. I'm not sophistiacted enough a computer geek to put a link here but it's easy to find. The bullet looks like a keeper.

[ 12-29-2002, 21:11: Message edited by: RogerK ]

link
http://www.nosler.com/accubond.html

hmm, so, there IS a KNOWN problem with BT's blowing up and nosler is putting time/money/marketing into fixin em.

So, why don't they just put the BT on a partition, and call it El Jeffe? (the boss)

well, mercy me, who'ld of thunk that BTs SUCK for heavier than 100lbs deer? Wait, that would be about 1/2 the big bore guys!!

sorry for the dig there fellas, but I will not point BTs at game. paper, sure nuff, but not game.

jeffe

[ 12-29-2002, 21:32: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

They won't put the bt on partitions because partitions are not known for accuracy like the ballistic tips.As for the new accubond if they want to sell more they will have to put them on lighter bullets.Most people that feel they need a 200gr .308" bullet will buy partitions anyway.Don't tell the game animals that ballistic tips don't work as I don't want them to stop falling over dead when I shoot them with ballistic tips.

Jeffeosso
It's not a BT problem persay, but a application problem. A 150gr BT out of a 308/30-06 class rifle has a nice balance of penatration and expansion, but will fail miserably in a "shoots-em-faster blaster. Why? because it's to far above the designed impact velocity, plain and simple.
If you noticed, the new BT's are all on the heavy for caliber side, which (to me) means there designed for the new "super magnums".

I've had 2 (standard BT's) fail to exit in about 75 deer, the first was from the front (went in the back of the neck and stopped in the gut) at 35 paces, and the second (at 200yd) stopped in the far shoulder blade of the second deer it hit. I've also had them exit from the chest with the shot entering at the backstrap/hip junction at 125yd. (all with a 30-06 150gr BT @ 2950MV)

Now, a question for you. Why do so many guys feel thay need a 500yd capable super mag for the 50 yard (max) shot there hunting setup provides? Those are the ones I hear whining the most about the BT's, not the guys that use them at greater distances (IE: within the designed impact velocity range).

Always good to see another new bullet hit the shelves. We sure are living in the best of times for excellent, high-quality bullets.

I always had great performance from the original Solid Base Noslers. And when the B-Tips came out, understanding their "design envelope", I also had great performance with them.

But, it is still as important as ever to understand "how" a specific bullet is designed to work, "what" velocities it functions properly at and "which" Game it is intended to be used on. Go outside any of these areas and the "potential" for bullet failure is increased.

So, I look forward to the new Nosler A-Bond.

Huuuummm, come to think of it, it should be almost as good as a regular old "Standard Grade" Speer Hot-Cor!!!

...

Any idea if they plan to cut the number in the box in half AGAIN and double the price AGAIN???

[ 12-29-2002, 23:35: Message edited by: Hot Core ]

Hotcore-After seeing a 250gr hot core from a 35 whelen break up on the shoulder of a mule deer I don't have a lot of confidence in the hot core line.The shooter was not pleased either and used his 300 mag with partitions for the rest of the hunt.He was glad it was not an elk that the bullet failed on as it probably would have run away.The mule deer died only because a fragment of bone damaged the lung allowing the deer to be recovered.

I use 165 gr Nos BT's in my 30/06 at 2800 for thin skinned stuff and it performs pretty well on them. Only a couple of weeks a ago I wacked a couple at 200 yards nice fist sized exit out the other side but I would not use them on big tough stuff.

So these new bullets are going to hang together better than plain old bt's making them better for bigger stuff

[ 12-30-2002, 02:38: Message edited by: PC ]

The heavy weights are just what the doctor ordered for the big-cased "loudnboomers." Their extremely high BC's should make them outstanding at long range.

With the thick jackets, bonded cores and being heavy for caliber hopefully they'll prove to be tough enough for big critters at short range as well. Only time will tell.

To all, especially Jeffy,

Again I think your opinion is about as bass-akwards as it can be toward the Ballistic Tips bullets but you have the right to say and use whatever makes you a confident hunter.

I find it funny that since Nolser leaked the idea of a bonded core Bal. Tip, all the anti-B-Tipers out there come out screaming that even Nosler must admit that there is a problem with the Ballistic Tip being to fragile on game.

The only thing that Nosler is doing is what any other good company would do, "MAKE THEIR PRODUCT IDIOT PROOF! At least as much as possible. With the new rounds on the market, the 300 WBY class is relatively small these days and most of the hunters buying these monsters shouldn't and couldn't reach out 200 yards and cleanly harvest a deer let alone 500 yards.

Its these same hunters(?) that grab a box of 150 gr Ballistic Tips and drive them to 3800 fps out of their new 30-378 WBY and head to the tree stand for whitetails.

When old big boy strolls out at 50 yards, our super hunter hold dead on that shoulder bone and drops the hammer on nearly 5000 ft/lbs of energy on that 150 gr pill. Then he has the, again lack of brain matter, to be pissed when the big buck limps off to get away.

Nosler knows that there are alot of these very uneducated hunters out there and since anyone can purchase one of these super mags, there is no way to control what bullets are being used in them.

Since Nosler does not want to get a bad name from uneducated hunters, who know little more then how to spell their name let alone bullet selection, they decide to take a preemptive step and make a heavier, stouter ballistic tip design specifially for these big magnums.

If everyone out there knew when to use a Ballistic Tip correctly and when not to, there would have been no need for such action.

Personally I use both standard and large magnum rounds deer hunting. For hunting under 300 yards, my idea of the perfect whitetail round is my 25-06 loaded with a 100 gr Ballistic Tip at 3450 fps, has never let me down and even saved my bacon a couple times.

I do hunt in one area that is completely open with ZERO cover. When the whitetails rut, the mature bucks take hot does to this area to avoid other bucks. Hunting here produces some huge whitetails and often some very long shots. In fact a 200 yard shot would be a very close shot here.

I use the 300 RUM loaded with the 180 gr Ballistic Tip at 3420 fps. Again it has always performed very well.

I like the idea of a 160 gr 7mm bullet and a 200 gr .308" Ballistic Tip for the STW, RUM and bit WBY cases, just makes them even better rounds.

But if nosler would have made a 200 gr Ballistic Tip of conventional design, it to would have stood up better to these big magnums, a heavier, slower bullet of same design always will.

Good Shooting!!!

50

to be fair, please read my entire post. and, if you think that 2650 is too fast for BTs, then just keep em for shooting paper. a MILD 308 150 is faster than that.

BTs fail, but we might have a dictionary issue as to bullet failure. IMNSHO bullet failure is a bullet that self destructs/sheds it's jacket/doesn't retain, AT LEAST 75% of it's bullet weight if it doesn't exit an animal.

Guys, (esp fiftydriver) damn it, i AINT talking about a 300-goes-too-fast.. Although those happen too. I am talking about MILD loads in a striker 708 pistol... 85-115 yards, like 2650 muzzle velocity, and the BLOW THE **** up, even in a behind the shoudler shot.

This is bullet failure, but sure, it'll drop a whitetail. Dead animal, sure, and you get to take the meat home. But the bullet FAILED. It's that simple, and no amount of religion is going to change the fact that BTs blow up. I've tried them in 358, 300 win, 308, 7 mag708, 257, and 270..and in EVERY case the bullet blows up.. guys, a 358, at 2400fps at the muzzle, ~100 yard shot, feral hogs shoulder.. NO FRICKIN EXIT.. hog weighed less than 150. I found FRAGMENTS of the bullet. Take that with nearly the same shot, little closer, and sierra 225 gr game kings... exit wound, pig on the ground, no bullet fragments.

this is bullet failure. even you like the way it slays the hind, it's still not good performance.

Since I hunt hogs, on the ground, it's more than possible that I'll have a 10 yard shot, at ~300 lbs of angry grissle plate and tusks.. there is no way I would use that frangable bullet when it's my ASS on the line.

sorry, I just get feed up with the religion associated with BT's. Sure, they are accurate as hell.

oh, btw, those "that know" would only use the heavier bullets, in their 'super whiz bangs" as it stands to reason.

jeffe

[ 12-30-2002, 03:41: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

jeffeosso-Actually scotsmen wear kilts because sheep can hear zippers.

I agree with Jeffesso. In my own experience the BT fails 100%. 3 out of 3 deer i have shot the bullet failed. If a bullet fragments and loses more then 50% wight it fails in my opinion. Everyone must agree on that? If it is varmint hunting its OK but not for deer.

I shot a deer (200 ibs) stag at 330 yards behind shoulder, did not hit any bones and the bullet produced 6 exit holes. It died quickly but the bullet failed. I also shot a small roe deer, about 50 ibs at 200 yards and the bullet failed to exit except a small hole in its ass! Perfect broadside. Loads of meat destroyed including the file�. It was a perfect center lung shot behind the shoulder. I was using a 6,5x55 with 120 grain BT at 3000 fps. At 200 yards that bullet is not out of spec speed wise. Maybe the 6.5mm BT is worse than other calibers but for me it did not work well.

Gentlemen

How strange, I always had great luck with the ballistic tips from roe deer to red stag. Only in 257 wby the exit holes go a bit larger than the other ones.

Most of the time bullets have been found under the skin on the far side of the animal, often quite mushroomed.

I will call my relatives in USA and ask them to haul another 20 pounds to me next time they visit Sweden I wonder what the limit is for calling it muletrain

Does anyone know when they will be out on the shelf

/ JOHAN

[ 12-30-2002, 21:50: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

Is a 1 in 10 twist fast enough for this 200 gr .30 bullet? It is in a 300 RUM.

Yes, your 300 RUM with a 1:10 twist will stabalize them just fine.

To all the Ballistic Tip bantor:

First, aren't there enough threads for that already? Asside from the plastic tips and (hopfully) accuracy, these new bullets will have little in common with BT's. Make a bullet heavier, make the jacket thicker, bond the core and you've got a completely different animal terminal performance-wise. Unless they really screw up the execution, these things should hold together better and penetrate deeper than any standard bullet, hopefully giving the high dollar premiums a run for their money--not to mention Nosler's own Partition.

As for their introduction being some sort of admission that the BT's are flawed, I don't think so. The BT's are great at what they do--expand quickly/violently and do a ton of damage really quick. These are simply a different bullet for a different application.

I don't think Swift was admitting something was "wrong" with the A-Frame when they came out with the Scirocco. They didn't say the A-Frames may be too tough and have too low a BC to shoot thin skinned game at long range. If that's what you're doing, an A-Frame would have been the wrong choice in the first place. Enter the Scirocco. A different bullet for a different application. Just because it's better for certain applications doesn't mean the A-Frame was flawed. It was simply intended to be used a different way.

That's the way I see the Accubond. A different bullet for a different purpose. One that's heavy and will hold together for deep penetration at close range with poorly angled shots on large game and yet still have a high BC and great accuracy. That's what I'm hoping for at least. We'll see how they do soon enough.

Jeff,

I find it funny that in the fallowing list of handguns that I have used to harvest big game, the ballistic tips have performed even better at these velocities then at the higher rifle velocities:

270 Win T/C Encore 130gr B.T. 2750 fps
7mm BR XP-100 120gr B.T. 2510 fps
7mm-08 T/C Encore 140gr B.T. 2625 fps
7mm RUM T/C Encore 140gr B.T. 2875 fps
7.21 Tomahawk Encore 140gr B.T. 2890 fps
338 WSM XP-100 180gr B.T. 2950 fps

All of these have harvested at least one big game animal and most have harvested many, ranging from 150 pound whitetail does to 350 pound mule deer bucks at ranges from 40 yards out to 317 measured yards. Also I have never found a single recovered Ballistic Tip from any animal shot with a Ballistic Tip. They all produced very similiar results, 1.5" to 2" entrance wound and about the same exit with a mess in the middle.

I say these bullets perform better at these handgun velocities only by using your definition of a successful bullet. This is the list of rifles and Ballistic Tips used to haevest big game:

243 Win Ruger M77 90gr B.T. 3100 fps
6mm-284 Win M70 95gr B.T. 3600 fps
25-06 Ruger M77 100gr B.T. 3450 fps
7mm Rem Mag Ruger M77 140gr B.T. 3390 fps
300 RUM Rem M700 180gr B.T. 3410 fps
375 Rum Rem M700 260gr B.T. 3150 fps

Of these I have found three bullets in game, two 6mm bullets and one .257" bullet. I have yet to need a second shot to stop a deer within 50 yards of the hit. I have shot +300 pound whitetails at 30 yards and +300 pound whitetails at near 500 yards.

Knock on wood, nothing unusual has ever happened to me yet, but all bullets have landed on the money which is far more important then which bullet is used, especially on deer.

You comment about hunting hogs make me chuckle a bit. A few years ago I when on a Russian boar hunt with six other hunters, all the others were using archery gear and I was using a Ruger Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel chambered for the 45 Colt. My load was the 300 gr Speer Uni-Core Sp at 1200 fps using H-110.

I harvested my near 300 pound boar with a single shot which took out both shoulders and exited dropping the boar in his tracks. Also I was employed to track down two other wounded boars which were less then happy to see me but the old Colt hammered then with ease, one shot a piece.

My question for you is why, if you are shooting a boar at 10 yards would you have anything else except a powerful big bore revolver loaded with heavy bullets. My choice now would be my 480 Ruger shooting its favorite 425 gr WFNGC at 1200 fps. This load will penetrate every bit as deep as any rifle up to the 458 Win Mag and that has been proven time and again.

No rifle can compete with a well shot handgunner when the action gets close and sticky.

And if you don;t think a handgun is enough for a pissed off pig, we'll have to book a hunt together and I'll prove it to you very impressively.

Goos Shooting, interesting results you get with the B.T., pretty typical of the results recieved by those that don't like the bullet. Thats alright, guess I'll just have to keep on being lucky, lets see, its only been about 15 years in a row that the Ballistic Tip has put a mature buck in the freezer and several times that many meat deer.

Guess I'm just lucky or something.

50

[ 01-01-2003, 05:02: Message edited by: zman ]

Hot core- The hot core failure occured when the gun was fired by a shooter from new york and it occured in montana.

Jeffe,

Well, while we differ on bullet selection used on deer size critters, we obviously have the same taste in big bore handgun and shotgun stoppers.

I do love hunting boars and in fact I am planning a hunt right now to go down to your fine state and bust a couple in the spring.

I am usually the one called upon to chase a wounded pig because the others feel archery gear is the only way to go, that is until something needs to be ended quickly, then they line up behind me and the Colt. Thats alright, if they are happy with me shooting their game, I'm perfectly fine with it.

All else aside, I'm sure you would agree that its the shooters ability that make the greatest result in harvesting any animal.

Good Shooting.

50

Any of you BT lovers get in on the many Barnes Bashing Threads here on Saeeds Board?

I think this is really a comical thing to even discuss, much less get upset about.

Where is the urgency with this subject in the whole scope of things that brings out the worst in people?

BTW, I use
Hornady
Speer
Sierra
Barnes
and did use BT's in one rifle I just sold.

For the most part I had good results with all, just used common sense.

Now I have to get back to arguing with my brother-in-law about Fords/Dodges/ and Chevy's

StubbleJumper:

quote:

---

jeffeosso-Actually scotsmen wear kilts because sheep can hear zippers.

---

Are one of those damn Englis? Sounds like it.


Hammer of the Englis

Bearclaw-I am not english and would not admit it if I was.I just find it entertaining to get the english,scotch,irish and welsh all fired up and on each others case.It's easy to do and can be quite entertaining.

You're a good man then! (If you want to get a Scot all riled up just say the "E" word)! ROFLMAO!

Bear Claw,
Or should I say Mac'Humbarger.
do yer ken that a fine scots name!!

Griff

Now someone will load a 200gr .308 "accubond" bullet into a .308 Win, make a marginal hit @ 500yds, then scream about "bullet failure" when the bullet fails to expand properly because of insufficient velocity and the animal is not recoverd until the next day!

I'll bet that far more animals are lost because of inadequite expansion than are lost to "bullet desintegration"!

[ 01-02-2003, 02:35: Message edited by: wildcat junkie ]