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Picture of Scout Master 54
posted
I just purchased a new Win. M-70 Featherweight in SS - .30/06. I have put together a serries of hand loads and plan to head to the range to see what she will do. I have had a diffrent recomendation from every one I speak with on how to break in the barrel. They range from clean out after every shot for the first 25 rounds to using lapping coumpound on bullets (UGH!) to other that say just shoot the damn thing. In the past I must admit to following the latter recomendation but I am open if there is a better way? I am not looking for a bench rest comp gun here just for a decent hunting rifle when I am done.

I appreciate the input.

Scout Master 54
 
Posts: 332 | Location: Western CT | Registered: 10 June 2003Reply With Quote
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I have looked into this recently as well since I just rebarreled my Savage. One site, I forget which, recommended shooting one bullet, then using foam cleaner, a nylon brush to scrub, then running patches till clean and then soaking again overnight and running patches til clean; do this 5 times.

I am going with the clean after every shot for 25 times, after that I am going to check for excess copper fouling. If there is excess copper fouling I am going to try again another 10 shoot/clean rotations.


"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then is not an act, but a habit"--Aristotle (384BC-322BC)
 
Posts: 749 | Location: Central Montana | Registered: 17 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of hivelosity
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ther sure is alot of opinions on this.
Clean good to start.
shoot 1 round clean
shoot 3 rounds and clean
then go for it.
 
Posts: 2134 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 26 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jan
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Hello Scout 54, is that your age? :-)

I just got a new stainless barrel on my Sendero. The first 100 rounds a cleaned every 10 rounds thouroughly, now every 30 rounds or within 3 - 4 months. If you got a bad barrel you can break in till the end of your life and it will stay a bad barrel, sorry for you!
If you get 1 to 1,5 MOA with the ILDM of Audette, don't bother. Topic: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/571104925

Have a nice day,
Jan.
 
Posts: 113 | Location: Terschelling, the Netherlands | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Grumulkin
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If I had time, I would shoot one shot and then run a single patch of shooters choice through the barrel for the first 50 rounds.

What I really do, is clean very thoroughly after each 10 to 15 rounds for the first 100 or so shots through the barrel.

The purpose is to smooth out the barrel for less fouling. Most barrels (possibly 1 exception) I've done this with don't foul badly at all so I presume it's working.
 
Posts: 2911 | Location: Ohio, U.S.A. | Registered: 31 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Scout Master 54
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Well, I shot 3 cleaned, shot 10 cleaned and shot 15 more. That was about as patient as I could be. Of the loads tried (limited 1st range session) it showed a decided preference for Hornadays 150g BTSPI with 49.5g of IMR-4895. Thanks to all, still many more range sessions to go. Thanks.
 
Posts: 332 | Location: Western CT | Registered: 10 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of JMJ888
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I have gone about it both ways and I think there may be some merit to starting with some procedure to start with. The best one I have found thus far was recommended by Krieger.

5 - 1 shot and clean
1 - 3 shot group
1 - 5 shot group or another 3 shot for magnums

After that then every 15-30 rounds or whenever you feel like it. I did this with my last 375 barrel and I noticed fouling being reduced significantly over the course of fire...even with copper TSX's.

If things get really ugly then I get into abrasive compounds such as JB bore paste or the like.
 
Posts: 438 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 27 December 2005Reply With Quote
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A local gunsmith who use to be on the Marine Corp rifle team and was a marine armourer.... I asked him the same question...

He told me, that when his customers ask about breaking in a new barrel, he just recommends going out and shooting the darn thing like it was already broken in....

He indicated that is what he has always done... and for a hunting rifle, has always worked fine... and that he has even done the same thing for competition barrels...

I have always followed the same advise...
 
Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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This is what Shilen has to say about the subject of break-in:

quote:
How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?
Break-in procedures are as diverse as cleaning techniques. Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don't think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.
Here is our standard recommendation: Clean after each shot for the first 5 shots. The remainder of the break-in is to clean every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. During this time, don't just shoot bullets down the barrel during this 50 shot procedure. This is a great time to begin load development. Zero the scope over the first 5 shots, and start shooting for accuracy with 5-shot groups for the next 50 shots. Same thing applies to fire forming cases for improved or wildcat cartridges. Just firing rounds down a barrel to form brass without any regard to their accuracy is a mistake. It is a waste of time and barrel life.



And just to show, that no two opinions are the same, this is what Krieger thinks:

quote:
With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or steel chemistry, or the condition of the chambering reamer, etc. . . For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in -- sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.

Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.


- mike


*********************
The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart
 
Posts: 6653 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: 11 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Reloader
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The common practice I use is to shoot one and clean for 10 rounds, thoroughly clean, and clean after each 3 shot group for 3-4 groups. Then clean w/ bore foam after every 15-20 rounds. That's what most of my gun-nut buddies and I have been doing.

My opinion is that it certainly will not hurt it so why not do it.

Of course if it's a hunting rifle, you haven't officially broken it in until you've gotten alittle blood on it Big Grin.

Good Luck

Reloader
 
Posts: 4146 | Location: North Louisiana | Registered: 18 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of El Deguello
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quote:
A local gunsmith who use to be on the Marine Corp rifle team and was a marine armourer.... I asked him the same question...

He told me, that when his customers ask about breaking in a new barrel, he just recommends going out and shooting the darn thing like it was already broken in....

He indicated that is what he has always done... and for a hunting rifle, has always worked fine... and that he has even done the same thing for competition barrels...

I have always followed the same advise...


I am certainly no marine armorer, or match-rifle gunsmith either! But this is essentially what I do, Back in the days when I was shooting competitively, I never heard anyone even MENTION the idea of "breaking in a barrel." This is a relatively recent phenomenon.......


"Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
 
Posts: 4386 | Location: New Woodstock, Madison County, Central NY | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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When I first started getting into guns and rebarreled a few, I did the Shilen break-in method... Honestly I'm too lazy to do so anymore, I really don't have the time to drag all that shit to the range and spend hours scrubbing out a bore after every shot...

Now I just clean the barrel well prior to going to the range, shoot the loads I have for the rifle, and clean it up when I get home.

Just last month my 'new' rifle was an Armalite AR15 National Match rifle I've had for 3+ years and never got around to shooting. A friend wanted to get some practice in before a qualification he had to shoot for work (prison system). I brought only the Armalite and 250 rounds. Cleaned up the bore well before shooting and we fired about 150 rounds that day out of a brand new bore. At the end of the session I wrapped into a tight sling and shot a 1 1/4" 5 shot group with open sights at 100yds on a very poor target (light orange 5 spot Hoppe's).

Nope, I don't worry too much about breaking 'in' barrels anymore.


Shoot straight, shoot often.
Matt
 
Posts: 1187 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 19 July 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jan
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After having read all this, you could break-in a barrel of mediocre and less quality. The less the quality is, the more single rounds (one shot - clean) you need. I think it will be cheaper to buy a wellmade and borepolished barrel than spend some hundreds of cartridges to get the bore lapped.

The topic of Mike is worth reading.

Matt: some years ago I did some investigation on parallax of some 12 scopes and fired in one week about 500 rounds with one single rifle, a SAKO, .270 Winchester, handloads Sierra. At the end of that week (bless Friday), the rifle still performed minus MOA, without cleaning!

I got four new barrels now, two custommade. The last one I did not break-in. Guess: sub MOA with TSX en AccuBond, after a good 100 rounds ever improving!

Jan.
 
Posts: 113 | Location: Terschelling, the Netherlands | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Here's the "theory" --

The shooting "laps" the finish of the bore. And so you want to smooth the finish of the bore without putting down copper jacket in the pores of the bore surface.

Shoot a round. Brass brush, copper solvent. Run cotton patches on a jag. Use some copper solvent.

Repeat, about 20 times.
 
Posts: 825 | Registered: 03 October 2006Reply With Quote
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