Next time you guys (woods ) load some ammo, time yourself.

We always have debates here on what is faster, using the Chargemaster Auto Thingy, or throwing and trickling.

I just finished loading 100 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor this morning. I decided to time the process. I throw with an RCBS Uniflow then trickle with a Lyman trickler into the pan on a Chargemaster 750 scale to the exact .1 grain.

I started with 100 cases ready for powder and bullets. It took 26 minutes to charge the cases. Every 10 charges are checked on a beam scale as a comparitor. I then seated all of the bullets with a Redding Competiton seater in my Co-Ax which took 14 minutes.

Total time to charge the cases and seat the bullets was 40 minutes.

I had an Auto Thingy for a while. I was never happy with it and got rid of it.

While I didn't put a stop watch on it like you did I felt that when charging a number of cases like you did it was about the same. Where I thought there was a saving was allowing you to do double duty. While you were seating the bullet in one case the charge master was throwing the charge for the next.

Doing it in stages like you did I felt there was no real time saving.

An old Southern Philosopher once said(or should have ):

He who Races to Load Ammo - Pulls lotsa Bullets, ya'll.

quote:

He who Races to Load Ammo - Pulls lotsa Bullets, ya'll.

There is a big difference between seeing how long it normally takes you to reload a case vs trying to set a land speed record while loading.

Doing the number crunching, it took me 15.6 seconds to charge each case...accurately with no racing including dumping the powder into the case with a funnel

Watch this video from the 1:43 mark to the 2:15 mark.




It takes twice as long just to measure the powder at 32 seconds. Then he has to dump it into the case.

As far as seating bullets, it took me 8.4 seconds to seat each bullet by the numbers.

My total time handling each empty case to completed is 24 seconds.

The Chargemaster takes 32 seconds just to weigh the powder. Add to that charging the case. I'll give you that you can then seat a bullet when the device is running the next charge.

I rest my properly prepped case

The difference between the two methods is that when the thrower is adjusted properly, throwing a charge just under what is desired by about .3 grains, the bulk of the powder is thrown in about 1 second on the handle.

Takes about 25 with the Autothingy

The manual trickler is faster too because you can see and use your brain on how much and how fast to trickle.

After all the cases are charged in one operation, it's a snap to seat the bullets in the next.

I like to do it in two operations because you get into a rhythm and really start making good time!

what a waste of time I reload because I enjoy it not play beat the clock.

I'd say many don't load the volume of ammo I'm talking about. Heading to a match that requires 250 rounds. Most load for fun and accuracy. Might be retired and need to kill some time as well.

For busy folks still in the workforce, time is valuable. I'm up till midnight and get started early in the a.m. sometimes just to get it done.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I'd say many don't load the volume of ammo I'm talking about. Heading to a match that requires 250 rounds. Most load for fun and accuracy. Might be retired and need to kill some time as well.

For busy folks still in the workforce, time is valuable. I'm up till midnight and get started early in the a.m. sometimes just to get it done.

Now, if you really want to save time loading that volume of rounds, switch to a Dillon progressive .

Regards,
hm

I've wondered about that.

How accurately does it dispense extruded powder?

How do you deal with sizing and the lube?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

How accurately does it dispense extruded powder?

How do you deal with sizing and the lube?

Based on the number of rounds you load for a match, I suspect you are shooting NRA HP.

When I first switched to the Dillon, they were currently making the 450. I used mostly 4895 and 4064. The measure was operated manually, so I felt compelled to weigh my long range ammo.

Dillon came out with a number of upgrades over the early years(mostly for free)and have a super customer support dept. Any rate, over the years I have upgraded my old 450 to be a 550 clone and the 550 measure (automatic)is wonderful compared to the original one. I have no problem throwing 4895 within +/- .1 gr and ball powders even closer while turning out somewhere in the neighborhood of 250-300 rounds per hour. With proper load development, this is sufficiently accurate enought to clean the NM targets through 300 yds and using H450 for 600 yd. loads the measure throws accurately enough to clean that target, as well. Here is a 3" spotter from a target shot @ 600 yds. w/ammo loaded on the Dillon:



The 15th shot hit the spindle holding the spotter in the previous shot and blew a 12" hole in the target face, requiring target repair that cost me a few points as conditions changed while the target was in the pits .

I do not take the full advantage of the progressive for match grade ammo as I usually deprime by hand, clean primer pockets, lube cases and size in order to trim case every time fired using Lee case trimmer. (Not necessary, but find this to be about as fast as measuring each case and trimming as needed. For the 600 yd. ammo, I hand prime, as well.) Then I back out the sizing die and proceed w/the progressive steps.
The lube is removed during the case trimming stage by wiping case w/a rag while spinning in the drill.

When I shot competition, I shot at least 100 rounds per week, every week and more on match weekends. Wish I had a penny or tow for the number of rounds I've loaded on the old 450's .

When loading time is a concern and loading the number of rounds you do, I think you would probably find a progressive press to be a worthwhile "thingy" .

Regards,
hm

I load with a PACT it takes about 40 minutes to charge 50 cases. If I put my disenser and scale on a table that isn't attached to my bench I can dispense and seat at the same time. I know my PACT scale and 505 are in agreemant and I chenc the PACT with check weights during the session. Usually I just charge cases and seat afterwards. I just finished up my 100 yard reduced course ammo for hte year the other night. I generally load for a month at a time. I load for two service rifle matches a month. I will prep and prime a years worth of brass in a couple of weeks then load as I need ammo. Maybe my next batch I'll throw and trickle.

Good shooting.

Questions for Sam & rcamuglia:

I tried an old Auto-something ??? automatic powder dispenser. They later sold out to Lyman IIRC. It used an electric trickler that dumped into the pan of a ballance beam scale which, in turn, cut off the trickler as beam approached the balance point.

I got rid of it when I purchased the Dillon. It was quite accurate, but more often than I cared for, the powder would "slide" down the trickler tube after motor shut off resulting in an overcharge that had to be dumped back in the hopper. Is this an issue with the RCBS &/or Pact measures, or have they figured out a fix for that problem?

Regards,
hm

I actually owned the Lyman 1200 Thingy.

I sent it back after using it for a while. Other than being twice as slow as throwing and trickling, I don't think the scale was as accurate as the RCBS. It's also a pain to clean it out. It didn't work worth squat with ball powder and actually bound up.

The speed and simplicity of throwing and trickling blows away the electric thingy.

Thanks hm about the progressive. I wondered about all the hands-on steps you need to take with brass that you wouldn't be able to do unless you took the cases out of the progressive every time. In that case, you have made a single stage out of it anyway.

Maybe for high volume varmint shooting where case prep may not be much of a concern, it would shine

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Thanks hm about the progressive. I wondered about all the hands-on steps you need to take with brass that you wouldn't be able to do unless you took the cases out of the progressive every time. In that case, you have made a single stage out of it anyway.

Maybe for high volume varmint shooting where case prep may not be much of a concern, it would shine

Actually, trimming is the only step that interupts the progressive cycle (when using the simple Lee trimmer). If you trim in a separate operation like most folks do, it is not a problem.

I finally ground the tip off the lee case gauge part of the trimmer just enough so that the cases were trimmed before resizing were a couple of thousandths shorter than they ended up after resizing (if that makes sense). I just kept trimming the stem until a case wound up correct length after sizing. Then you can run them according to normal progressive procedure. With the lee trimmer, primer must be removed but this allows for primer pocket cleaning, too.

Dillon makes an electric case trimmer that can be placed in the 4th station so that cases are trimmed during the normal progressive routine. I have never tried this attachment, however.

Thanks for the info on the RCBS auto charge. I very seldom weigh charges as I feel that careful load development allows thrown charges to be very accurate; I was just curious as to whether the newer units eliminated the problems encountered w/older models.

Regards,
hm

On your mark, get ready, get set, GO!!!! Sorry to say, dispite how long I've been reloading, I haven't the foggiest as to how long it takes me to make a cartridge. Not one nor one thousand. When I sit down to reload, I try to clear my mind of all extraneous things, which would include a clock, and concentrate on the job at hand.
I've done it both ways and it's true that with a nice ball powder and a smooth, practiced stroke, one can really generate some ammo. But on the other hand when one is loading a sequence of trial cartridges, where the throw has to be adjusted after every 5 or 10 cartridges, a automated does come into it's own. (that's assumed as I have never timed myself with either method)

The PACT is made like the electronic tricklers, both tubes are vertical. I think most of them are built that way from looking at them. The only problem I've ran into is with H335 powder (probably most ball powder) is that sometimes I have to set it .1 grain below the charge I want. Using Varget and RL15 I haven't had this problem.

Those who tout digital dumpsters as "fast" must have a very poor work flow path with manual tools (measure, beam scale, tricker).

Most bench photos I see have the scales sitting on the bench top - only thing worse would be to sit it under the bench top! Put a measure just to the left rear of the press, sit the scale and trickler on a shelf just to the left of the measure and we can charge and seat quickly without moving our feet.

Or, as many do, put the measure on the front of the bench at some distance from the press, sit the trickler and scale on the bench where it's hard to read and then complain about how "slow" the tools are!

I never said it was "fast". If I want ammo fast I can order it. Reloading is me time not high speed production.

When you have a developed load, loading "fast" doesn't compromise anything.

Weigh the charges to the exact .1 grain the seat bullets to the exact OAL. I did it for the 100 rounds I talk about and some of you make it out to be randomly scooping powder into the case and shoving bullets on top without regard.

Couldn't be further from factual

The ammo is the same as if I had took twice as long and used an electronic dispenser

accurate to one kernel of powder and faster than you can seat a bullet:

Provided the world doesn't end tomorrow I'm going to run a batch with the beam just because I haven't used it in a year. Does anyone have a time for that yet? I think I'll wait until Sunday to mow the lawn.

I have an auto charge thingy. I can seat and measure a bullet while the next charge is being dispensed. Also, I don't have to crane my neck and get a headache trying to focus on that balance beam pointer.

Now if they made an auto thingy that dispensed powder and beer this debate would be over.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard I:
accurate to one kernel of powder and faster than you can seat a bullet:

quote:

Provided the world doesn't end tomorrow ....

I guess I was too slow the first batch.

I just finished another 100 rounds. Charging them took 21 minutes. Seating bullets took 16 minutes.

37 total minutes

With the autothingy, you could charge about 60 cases in that amount of time, and that's giving any benefit of the doubt.