The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Is my load Dangerous? 168gr TSX 300Win magGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have loaded the TSX's since they came out. Love em. I followed thier original recommendations of 1-2gr over the naked X bullets loads for tSX. I see they recommend 78gr of H4831sc with a X 165gr. Now the new manual shows all my loads significally over max. I found a submoa load I love and shot ever since 300Win Mag 79gr 4831sc 168gr TSX 215M Primer 3.38" COL 3220fps I more than anybody know the manual is just a guide. The only pressure signs I feel is on the 3rd fire of a case, I get heavy bolt lift. But I only collet neck size. And figured I just need to Full Length size on the 3rd fire. Primers fine. Barnes data seems to be all over the place. Wonder if I should scale down. | ||
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Don't believe I want it in my 300 Winny. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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My Barnes #2 goes to 78 grains max for the 165-grain XFB. I have found their data to be conservative and I do NOT "push envelopes". If you aren't splitting necks or having case separations by 6th reload or so, you are likely okay. In .300 H&H I have growth / trimming issues at about 7 reloads, but that's due to the cartridge. With the Winnie I'd get concerned the load's too hot if it needed lots of trimming (vs. FL resizing). What action? Strength there matters... 2 cents _______________________ | |||
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My book doesn’t list 4831sc for the 168 TSX so I asked Quickload. Quickload thinks it’s too hot.  It’s your call but if I were getting heavy bolt lift with this load, I’d back off or check out a different powder. | |||
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Barnes #4 manual for H4831sc has max at 74.5 grains. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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FYI, Quickload finds 74.5 grains easy to get alone with.  | |||
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Every rifle has slightly different dimensions than the industry standards. Some are tighter and some are larger depends on how they were cut. If your pressure sighs are ok and the accuracy is where you want it I would say go with it. This isn't a caliber that your going to be shooting 1,000 rounds/year unless you into some benchrest shooting. For hunting applications I would say you found a sweet one if the accuracy is what you want. | |||
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Is heavy bolt lift after three loads a pressure sigh? | |||
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I know, thats why I am griping. There freakin data is all over the place. They list 78gr in #3 with regular X. | |||
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It only has heavy bolt lift after reloading 3 times. But primers are not loose after 3 loads. Thanks for the quickload run. Could you tell me the safe level quickload says? | |||
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The safe level is the last QL picture I posted. If you need more information, just PM me. | |||
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Test same loads with full length sizing. A few of my Barnes loads are over what they publish, but shoot just fine in my rifle. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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A heavy bolt lift after the 3rd firing of neck sized cases is not a high pressure sign. As mentioned above, if you're not having signs of excess pressure and your accuracy is satisfactory, go with the load you have. | |||
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Folks, I think I am going to load her down a bit. Just not worth it. But I didn't get that great results at 74gr. About 1.5MOA. I am getting on average .8MOA with 79gr. I agree, I think the issue is with the neck sizing only as I had the exact same heaviness bolt lift with 76gr, 77gr, 78gr, and 79gr on the 3rd fire neck sizing. From experience, once I hit heavy bolt lift, its only a grain or two from severe primer issues, and locking up in the chamber. | |||
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Looking over the quickload run, it appears it sets the limit for pressure around 53KPSI. I thought win mag limit was around 62KPSI or so. | |||
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Well two things I missed were the brass manufacturer and barrel length. When you are pushing the envelop a 3-4gr difference in capacity can make a big difference. It appears to me you have a safe load in YOUR RIFLE. Change anything and all bets are off. QL calls max load for the wmag as 62366. The 53 shown is the max pressure for the load calculated for 74.5grs and W brass. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Using nickel plated winchester brass, 24" barrel, remington 700 ss. From experience, winchester brass is generally tough stuff compared to federal. I see federal brass having loose primer pockets with std loads. I may be wrong, but winchester is usually good at hiding pressure signs compared to remington and federal I usually see plunger/extractor marks when hitting high pressure too. I don't see that on these cases. | |||
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Just for snickers and grins. I measured case head expansion right above the belt on 20 pieces, same lot, same 3rd fire, same neck sizing, same primer, same rifle but shot with 76gr of rL22 and 180gr Bullistic tips. I measured average of 0.5142" with a micrometer. So I measurered the same with these 76-79gr of H4831sc with 168gr TSX. Averaged 0.5137". So maybe, some are right, that I am not overpressure in this gun. | |||
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If you’re going to fool around with PRE and CHE to test for pressure signs, you need the right tools and procedures. I think Hot Core has the information you need for that. It works as will as anything short of a universal receiver.  | |||
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Mick, I gave up on using micrometers for predicting pressure a few years ago. Depended on the brass, how many times fired, etc. And in the end, I came up still not sure if a load was high pressure or not. | |||
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IMHO you are probably a little warm. Have you tried reducing this load 2 grains? That shoulder might need to be bumped back slightly. An RCBS case mic would be good to make sure one way or the other. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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You might give H1000 a try. I am getting the same velocities as I do with H4831 in a 300 win but without expanding primer pockets. In my rifles it takes 3 more grains of H1000 to match H4831. | |||
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Interesting. I have had the exact opposite reaction with H1000 with 7mmSTW, 300RUM, and 7mmRemMag. Could never duplicate book velocities. | |||
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I would reload & shoot 5 cases repeatedly for as many reloads as they will handle - (say 7 or 8?). Then I would section the cases to see if there is a grove developing inside the case in front of the belt. I personally feel that the velocity of 3200+ for that bullet is too hot. I would stop at 3100 fps and if it was a 180 gr I would stop at 3000 fps max. The other question is about the "marginal gain" in velocity - how much extra powder did you add to move the velocity from 3100 to 3200? I tend to follow a thumb rule of 35 to 40 fps per grain of powder when reaching max loads. After that the marginal gain is very little & that means that we are reaching dangerous ground where the pressure goes up far too high for a small increase in velocity. If it is a currently dangerous load you should be able to reduce it & settle on 3100 fps with about 75gr of powder. Look at it another way - John Barsness has a great thumb rule - For max loads you increase pressure at twice the rate of velocity & powder charge. So for 3 grains of powder & 100 fps gain in velocity (3.25%) you will increase pressure by double (6.5%) or close to 4000 psi for that caliber. NOT WORTH THE RISK IMHO. Just my $0.2 worth. Be safe! "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Another thing to keep in mind is: How long are you loading the rounds to? There is a difference between loading a .300 Win. for a 3.40" magazing VS a 3.60" magazine. | |||
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A lot of good intel there! And also a great point in the next post from DougH9, OAL can alter pressure a lot! I would go with your other post, and back it off a bit--not worth driving that close to the edge IMO! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Is my load Dangerous? 168gr TSX 300Win mag
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