We used to use a wash formula for brass. It was dish detergent in hot water, vinegar, lemon juice, salt, and it seems like something else (bleach?).

I realize that ammonia is bad news on brass. I read somewhere on a brewing site that bleach and hydrogen peroxide can destabilize the brass in fittings on the wort (brew pot).

Salt turns the brass "pinkish" and I leave it out.

Lemon juice is just acetic acid like vinegar -- and vinegar is cheapr. I don't care if my brass is "lemon fresh."

It's not "rocket science" on the proportions, but I can't seem to find the formulas online.

All this crops up because Varmint Al talks about how vibratory media cleaning bangs the necks together on brass, affecting bullet release.

http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm

His links to washing solutions seem to have expired.

First I tumble them, then use hot water and grease-cutting dish detergent, like Dawn or any of them that claim to cut grease. I swish 'em and swoosh 'em around vigorously with old rags and bits of sponge in there, let 'em set for maybe 20 minutes, then shake 'em up again for a few minutes. Gets all the crap off and loosens some of the carbon inside the case. The water pours out very dark. Dry 'em in your oven at LOW or WARM (150 degrees) for about two hours or use a food dehydrator if you have one. That takes about four hours on HIGH. I often fry my cases on a low gas flame until the poppin' and spittin' stops. I always check to see how hot they are. If they are so hot I can't hold them in my fingers longer than I could one just spat from the chamber, they're hot enough. Turn 'em off and let 'em cool...

Dont use Dish washer machine soap like Cascade

That stuff corrodes the brass.

I use an ultrasonic cleaner for my brass, it's just a small jobbie but 20 '06 cases at a time suits my needs just fine.

I use warm water, a drop of dish soap and about 25ml of vinegar ( a shot glass ) for every glass (about 150 ml) of water.

The cases get two cycles of 4 minutes each, go into a bath of bicarb until the next batch is ready ( about 10 minutes ) then get rinsed under a running warm tap.

I the dry them out in a warm oven.

I find that either solution will stain the brass if not thoroughly removed, to that end I suspect the bicarb neutralisation step to be superfluous, but can't bring my self not to as it takes no extra time with the production line style method I use.

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
First I tumble them, then use hot water and grease-cutting dish detergent, like Dawn or any of them that claim to cut grease. I swish 'em and swoosh 'em around vigorously with old rags and bits of sponge in there, let 'em set for maybe 20 minutes, then shake 'em up again for a few minutes. Gets all the crap off and loosens some of the carbon inside the case. The water pours out very dark. Dry 'em in your oven at LOW or WARM (150 degrees) for about two hours or use a food dehydrator if you have one. That takes about four hours on HIGH. I often fry my cases on a low gas flame until the poppin' and spittin' stops. I always check to see how hot they are. If they are so hot I can't hold them in my fingers longer than I could one just spat from the chamber, they're hot enough. Turn 'em off and let 'em cool...

Careful with the direct heat Brewski, you may unevenly anneal the cases.

Bad karma.

Cartridge blocks that come in the pistol ammo boxes. 45 ACP fits most rifle calibers. The "good ones" have open bottom ends.

I stack up the brass in these blocks and set them in a dish drainer rack or similar (thrift shop) in front of the forced air heat. Floor register would work fine too.

200 F on the oven spread the brass on a cookie sheet. I found an alum. pan with drain holes at the thrift shop. It's a drainer from a crab pot.

I use ammo trays, strainers, colanders, etc. for ammo. I don't mix the food stuff with the ammo stuff! All sorts of cheap kitchen stuff in thrift shops that work for reloading.

is washing the cases after tumbling necessary?

quote:

Is washing the cases after tumbling necessary?

I do it because my media has a lot of dust in it. I prefer not to handle dusty brass when I trim it, et cetera. Only reason I wash it after resizing. If it's dirty "pick-up" brass, I wash it before it gets resized, then again to wash off the cooking spray I use for resizing lube.

quote:

Originally posted by sksshooter:
is washing the cases after tumbling necessary?

I don't tumble. That's the reason for the post. My nephew is starting to reload, and doesn't have a tumbler at the moment.

Berchwood-Casey Brass Cleaner works well...

quote:

Originally posted by sksshooter:
is washing the cases after tumbling necessary?

Tumbling with either corn cob or walnut shells with something like Lyman's tumbling abrasive (or plain old-fashioned car polishing compound) will leave your cases clean and dust-free with no need to wash or otherwise clean.

Some tumbling media comes with jeweler's rouge in it. NASTY. Keep away from that stuff as it will fill your cases with red dust.

quote:

Originally posted by 0X0:
We used to use a wash formula for brass. It was dish detergent in hot water, vinegar, lemon juice, salt, and it seems like something else (bleach?).

I realize that ammonia is bad news on brass. I read somewhere on a brewing site that bleach and hydrogen peroxide can destabilize the brass in fittings on the wort (brew pot).

Salt turns the brass "pinkish" and I leave it out.

Lemon juice is just acetic acid like vinegar -- and vinegar is cheapr. I don't care if my brass is "lemon fresh."

It's not "rocket science" on the proportions, but I can't seem to find the formulas online.

All this crops up because Varmint Al talks about how vibratory media cleaning bangs the necks together on brass, affecting bullet release.

http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm

His links to washing solutions seem to have expired.

Lemon juice is citric acid. The addition of salt donates creates a small amount of hydrocloric acid in the solution imprroving the performance on tarnished brass.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
The addition of salt donates creates a small amount of hydrocloric acid in the solution imprroving the performance on tarnished brass.

Thank you. I've often wondered what "function" the Salt provided.

Just can't bring myself to intentionally toss Salt in where it "might" eventually get to a barrel. Have to fight enough Salt through regular sweat when the Temp is up, but of course that is totally different.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by 0X0:
We used to use a wash formula for brass. It was dish detergent in hot water, vinegar, lemon juice, salt, and it seems like something else (bleach?).

I realize that ammonia is bad news on brass. I read somewhere on a brewing site that bleach and hydrogen peroxide can destabilize the brass in fittings on the wort (brew pot).

Salt turns the brass "pinkish" and I leave it out.

Lemon juice is just acetic acid like vinegar -- and vinegar is cheapr. I don't care if my brass is "lemon fresh."

It's not "rocket science" on the proportions, but I can't seem to find the formulas online.

All this crops up because Varmint Al talks about how vibratory media cleaning bangs the necks together on brass, affecting bullet release.

http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm

His links to washing solutions seem to have expired.

Lemon juice is citric acid. The addition of salt donates creates a small amount of hydrocloric acid in the solution imprroving the performance on tarnished brass.

At the PKa of citric acid?

Are you sure?

There will be some chloride ions in solutions sure, but i'm not sure that a weak acid can would evolve enough strong acid in the solution to make a difference.

Why not just use ethanoic acid, vinegar, to start with?

quote:

Lemon juice is citric acid. The addition of salt donates creates a small amount of hydrochloric acid in the solution improving the performance on tarnished brass.


http://www.tarawaontheweb.org/tarawa2.jpg

Hmmmmmmm, acetic, citric . . . of course. But then I'm not a chemist. The salt seems to turn the brass pinkish.

I'm not so much concerned with "bright/shiny" as I am with clean, grit free.

Again, NOT a chemist, but it seems that temps under boiling for drying brass shouldn't anneal cases. Annealing heating to about 600F. Warm oven, 200F shouldn't "anneal" brass.

I've used a hair dryer -- but forced air heating registers work fine too.

Mix a cup of washing soda(sodium carbonate) in 4 qts of boiling water. Get an aluminum pan and punch holes in the bottom with an ice pick or awl. Put the pan in the bottom of a plastic tub and dump the brass in the pan, spreading it out evenly. Then pour the hot solution over it. You'll see the tarnish and dirt vanish in about 15-30 seconds. Use some rubber washing gloves and remove the pan and drain. The tarnish will now be on the aluminum pan. Just wipe it off and run another batch. Reheat the solution as needed. This will also clean silver and copper.

Washing the brass in dishwashing detergent and soaking in vinegar does a great job too. Make sure you rinse the vinegar off with clean water.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by 0X0:
We used to use a wash formula for brass. It was dish detergent in hot water, vinegar, lemon juice, salt, and it seems like something else (bleach?).

I realize that ammonia is bad news on brass. I read somewhere on a brewing site that bleach and hydrogen peroxide can destabilize the brass in fittings on the wort (brew pot).

Salt turns the brass "pinkish" and I leave it out.

Lemon juice is just acetic acid like vinegar -- and vinegar is cheapr. I don't care if my brass is "lemon fresh."

It's not "rocket science" on the proportions, but I can't seem to find the formulas online.

All this crops up because Varmint Al talks about how vibratory media cleaning bangs the necks together on brass, affecting bullet release.

http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm

His links to washing solutions seem to have expired.

Lemon juice is citric acid. The addition of salt donates creates a small amount of hydrocloric acid in the solution imprroving the performance on tarnished brass.

At the PKa of citric acid?

Are you sure?

There will be some chloride ions in solutions sure, but i'm not sure that a weak acid can would evolve enough strong acid in the solution to make a difference.

Why not just use ethanoic acid, vinegar, to start with?

3% HCL works much better than vinegar.

quote:

3% HCL works much better than vinegar.

Dawn dishwashin' liquid, hot water and lots of elbow grease works better'n any damn thing, far as I'm concerned...

I've posted this tip before. Since it works so well and eliminates all the chemical concoctions, I'll share it again. Brass in close mesh bag, in the washing machine, with a load of dark laundry. It works.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
I've posted this tip before. Since it works so well and eliminates all the chemical concoctions, I'll share it again. Brass in close mesh bag, in the washing machine, with a load of dark laundry. It works.

Yep. I can see that working quite well. Maybe add some pieces of old terrycloth towel in the bag?

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
I've posted this tip before. Since it works so well and eliminates all the chemical concoctions, I'll share it again. Brass in close mesh bag, in the washing machine, with a load of dark laundry. It works.

I'm not surprised that it works. The laundry soap most likely contains washing soda, so it will work much like Bobster's washing soda trick.

HomeBrew,
I read somewhere to throw in a dryer sheet with your tumbling media once in a while to get rid of dust.

I don't know the chemistry behind it. But I have used the method mentioned by craigster.
And concur that it works quite well.
My only problem is not letting wifey catch "dirty gun stuff" in the washing machine. I always thought that is where you were supposed to put dirty stuff to get cleaned. But not so according to her.
I guess I still don't understand women.

muck

Lemon juice is citric acid, use it in water as a final rinse after washing brass with ALL Free & Clear laundry detergent in warm water. Vinegar or ammonia should not be used. Google "Dezincification of Brass 243winxb"

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
HomeBrew,
I read somewhere to throw in a dryer sheet with your tumbling media once in a while to get rid of dust.

I tried it. They do collect some dust, but it would take the whole box of them to make a real difference.

quote:

Originally posted by 243winxb:
Lemon juice is citric acid, use it in water as a final rinse after washing brass with ALL Free & Clear laundry detergent in warm water. Vinegar or ammonia should not be used. Google "Dezincification of Brass 243winxb"

A lot of people in your link either don't know what they are talking about or are talking mostly theory.
That said vinegar and salt will clean corroded or tarnished brass but that is NOT license to use it for every loading. You can't etch brass clean for ever with out some damage.
How ever ammonia is NEVER to be used - not even once or a little bit....period.

I've never seen it "published" on the web but the formula provided by NRA in their "Handloading" book years ago is 1 quart vinegar, 2 tablespoons salt, soak for 20 minutes, shaking or stirring occasionally, rinsing in running water very thoroughly.

In the same publication, contact with Frankford Arsenal confirms the efficacy of the formula and suggests another formula equally effective is a 10 minute soak in 5% solution of citric acid. The arsenal cleaned their brass in a 4% solution of sulphuric acid. All dips require thorough rinsing as any chemical bath to some degree consumes the metal. A chemist has advised me that the salt in the acetic acid formula promotes a galvanic action in the solution aiding in the cleaning.

quote:

Originally posted by BECoole:

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
homebrew,
I read somewhere to throw in a dryer sheet with your tumbling media once in a while to get rid of dust.

I tried it. They do collect some dust, but it would take the whole box of them to make a real difference.

What I do is remove the top and let it run outside on a windy day. If there's no wind, I set a 20-inch box fan in front of it and make my own wind...

I wash my clothes and polish my Brass !. What the hell are people washing brass for ?.

Looney's abound at every turn !. Solvent rinse OK wash not on my watch !.



Porky pig that's all folks

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
HomeBrew,
I read somewhere to throw in a dryer sheet with your tumbling media once in a while to get rid of dust.

roger

Every once in a while I use the vinegar salt + heat. Was told that the pink color is a result of the mild acid attacking and desolving the zink in the alloy more agressively than the copper. This leaves a micro surface of visable copper. Sounds about right. roger

quote:

Originally posted by 0X0:
Hmmmmmmm, acetic, citric . . . of course. But then I'm not a chemist. The salt seems to turn the brass pinkish .

I'm not so much concerned with "bright/shiny" as I am with clean, grit free.

Again, NOT a chemist, but it seems that temps under boiling for drying brass shouldn't anneal cases. Annealing heating to about 600F. Warm oven, 200F shouldn't "anneal" brass.

I've used a hair dryer -- but forced air heating registers work fine too.

Because the stronger acid eats away the Zink first and leave copper behind.

You wash it to get the dirt off of range brass.

What's it doing on the ground ?. Mine are in the magazine or chamber !.After firing mine are then put

back in the boxes if I'm on a range . Even my semi autos have stand alone brass catchers .

Maybe that's why I don't have the cleaning problems some of you do .

The Lee drill insert tool used with 0000 steel wool
turns those off colored cases into "like new"
shiny.

Hey Doc, I think the "range brass" they're talking
about is the brass they pick up off the range after
the range slobs leave it lay for someone else to
pick up.

The NRA formula using Wisk has made my brass brittle, very much like "stress corrosion cracking", that is caused by ammonia.This is a slow corrosion taking as long as 20 years. Annealing does not fix damaged brass.I started using the NRA formula i saw in an NRA reprint of the 45 auto over 30 years ago. It seemed to work well. Shooting an M16A1 requires lots of ammo. When the 4 gun clubs here banded full autos, the stock piled ammo sat in metal GI ammo cans. Ammo was all loaded in the 80's. All lots went in the NRA mix, except 1. This 1 is bright and shiney with no problems on firing. The other 4 or 5 lots have turned brown. 10% of these lots when firing semi-auto, leave half of the neck in the chamber. Or the neck is pulled off by the expander button when reloading.The head stamp does not matter. All brass is 70% brass & 30% zinc. "Dezincification of brass" happens. IMO.

The $64,000.00 question is:

How does Black Hills Ammunition get the brass for their re-manufactured ammo looking so absolutely clean and shiny??

If I have dirty brass, I run it for 30 minutes on HIGH in my model 675 (holds 1&3/4 gallon) Ultrasonic unit filled with Citranox cleaner, diluted as per instructions.

Then I take it out in the "french fry" basket, and rinse for five minutes under very hot water. That makes it perfectly clean. Then I tumble for 60 minutes (after it dries in the oven, or outside on a hot day) with a touch of polish to make it "shiny".

It still does not look as perfect as Black Hills "remanufactured" brass. What gives.

The right formula is hot tap water and dish washing detergint (I use Cascade). Tumble rinse with clean tap water.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/top...ml?b=6&f=42&t=302721....

Very interesting results with LemiShine.