The load is not shown on Hodgdon's web site either.



http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/30-06.php



Of course, that could just mean that they haven't updated their web site in awhile and that the booklet seafire has contains newer data than the data on their web site. The data at the link above is not showing the short cut 4831.



-Bob F.

any earth shattering news for 150gr bullets in the Hodgdon booklet???

Seafire, thanks for the info on the new Hodgdon pamphlet.

Observations on the TSX 180gr in two rifles chambered for 30-06:

Winchester, pre64 FWT, 22" barrel
WW Brass, WLRM primers, Reloder 19
2,870fps .85 MOA 5/100 average of five groups

Ruger No1B, 26" barrel, same load
3,014 fps .70 MOA 5/100 average of five groups

PACT Pro chronograph, velocities 15' from muzzle

Brass has been reloaded up to eight times, trimmed once, before primer pockets began to feel loose. Velocities with previous 180gr bullets were about 150fps lower (Nosler partition). Best accuracy has been with the TSX.

The TSX shows little tendency toward fouling. Montana Extreme is my solvent of choice followed by Sweets. Both rifles clean up fast and easy.

Two bull elk have been taken with the Winchester. No bullets were recovered; performance was superb.

These are only two examples, but, it has prompted me to begin a switch with other chamberings to the TSX. I've taken three bucks with the TSX in a 257AI and consider it the best performing bullet I have used in the quarter bore.

To think, I used to avoid Barnes!! I believe they have a unique bullet with the TSX and as more field examples come in we may be able to better evaluate it.

I have the Hodgdon Basic Reloaders Manual 2004 in my hand.
On page 20 30-06 data.

180 Gr. SIE SPBT
H4350 59.0 Gr. 2938 FPS 49,000 CUP

I like the typo theory. At their website, 59 grains H4350 is listed as the max for a 165 grain bullet, and the MV is 2938, exactly what we're seeing listed for the 180. They list the pressure as 49,400, though, rather than 49,000 as you are seeing in the new manual. Bet it's a mistake.

Hunterbug...

I think the difference in SAAMI specs between the '06 and the 270 probably comes from the fact that there are older, weaker '06 actions still around. That didn't happen to the 270, so you can set a spec for the 270 that is a bit higher.

In my '06, 57.5 grains of H4350 gives me 2797 fps and 56.4 KPSI in cool weather, with 180 grain bullets.

In that case, with that powder, a grain is about 50 fps and 2,000 PSI. So, for me, 59 grains should be about 2875 fps, and 59.4 KPSI... don't have a real good reason to go there.

I intend to try the new 4831 SC load and chronograph it..Just to satisfy my curiosity..thats some load and at neat pressue levels...

As to the other loads mentioned here, I think I'll just use my 300 H&H as I can get the same velocity at lower pressure....

Besides I have found the 06 and its 180 gr. bullet at a piddling standardized 2700 FPS sufficient to kill any thing that I have shot with it, including several cape buffalo....I doubt that a couple of hundred feet per second more would have made any great changes in its effect...I never have been able to tell any practical difference in the 06 and several 300 magnums I have used...

SEAFIRE
i was the culprit who posted the question in relation to SAM FADELA getting such high velocities in his 06 with H 4831 S/C....over 2900 fps with the 180 gn proj ...i said it was in guns and ammo ...in fact it was in rifle shooter

Seafire mentioned that the hogdens manual states they used H4831 others say its H 4350...WHICH POWDER IS IT!!!!!

I i have tested H 4350 in the pressre gun
180 gn nosler part
POWDER H 4350
CASE Lapua
Primer WLR
CART OAL 85 MM


57 gn 2750fps 60,000psi
58 gn 2810fps 63,000psi
59 gn 2838fps 665000psi
60 gn 2880fps 70500psi

im not one to load the 06 with cotton wool but i feel 2900 fps is overley optimistic if not a bit stupid
in fact im pressure testing the 06 with most avaliable powders and will post the results and i bet that not one powder will give me over 2900 fps with the 180 gn nosler with a pressure thats sane in a 24 inch barrel
stay tuned
regards daniel

SeeFire, you're hanging your hat on Sam Fadala... you're kidding, right?



Haven't tested the loads you refer to? Been loading the 06 for a long time and have used quite a variety of loads from H414/WW760 to IMR/H 4350 and RL22. H4831 sc tops out, in my 22" bbl'd rifle, at 60 grain's... not 63 grains for over 2,900 fps which is not safe... there's no free lunch sir, not even for you and your Pixey Dust barelled 06'.



As to being "cordial"... when someone posts this sort of balderdash on the internet for someone else to pick up and get hurt with cordiality is out the window.



Funny, I've seen you refer to Magnum's you've owned. I've also seen many occasion's where you're the first to jump on the "non-magnum" bandwagon while simultaneously being the only Internet Jockey I've met who's determined to turn a 30-06 into a 300 mag.

I'm not sure, but I believe that the formulas in QuickLoad and such are emperical formulas that predict muzzle speed from case size, bore, charge, etc.

OTH, if you have the curve of pressure vs. time, which you get from most strain gage systems, you can also derive muzzle speed from that... different approach.

Since speed is the integral of acceleration, you can derive muzzle speed of the bullet by expressing acceleration in terms of mass (weight divided by g), net force (pressure x base area - friction), and performing the integration. That is the direct conversion from pressure to fps.

HOTCORE
pressure equals velocity and velocity equals pressure ... however an important factor which is often not seen is the pressure curve and more specifically the area under the pressure curve
i maintain there is no free lunch in getting high velocities and as a consequnce i do not belive in fast barrels and slow barrels ....let me explain and this is just an EXAMPLE................ RIFLE A gets a velocity of say 2800 fps with 58 gn of H 4350 at a pressure of 65,000 psi RIFLE B gets a velocity of 2600 fps
with the same load ...58 gn s of H 4350....with rifle B PRESSURE will be a lot lower than rifle A
now with rifle B if you increase the charge of powder till you hit 2800 fps pressure will be very close to what RIFLES A PRESSURE is even thou the powder charge may be approching 60 gns of H 4350 .....you can probabley name a dozen good reasons for the diffrences in velocity and powder charge in the two rifles ...but the fact remain that no matter what the powder charge with the particular powder is , once you hit the velocity of lets say 2800 pressure will be about 65,000 psi.....im saying this because i have seen it on pressure guns and right now my loads are being tested in a new border barrel and we had to drop charges by i think 1.5 grain in order to get the same pressure and velocity as with the old worn out H.S PRECISION PRESSURE barrel
SEAFIRE ...I have done tests with the slower powders and 200 gn proj in the 06 and the best i can get is 2700 fps and that is right on the dot of 65,000 psi again i will post all the results once i get them ...but 2700 with the 200 nosler part is about the max vvn 165 is a real suprise packet but its a compressed load


regards daniel

This shows how nuts this forum can get.

Originally I just mentioned the place that I found out the information that Sam Fadala got this info from on his article about the Three Kings which included the 30/06 where he stated a MV of 2930 fps out of an 06 with a 180 grain bullet.

It was M98 who had originally asked about it, and the source.

Who could have believed that it ended up with 1650 plus hits on it??????

You would think there would be interest in more interesting topics!

Hope everyone got that ironed out and off of their chest!
ONE would think this was an AA meeting!
Do we need a group hug??? LoL

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

I can't believe you brought differential calculus (dv/dt) into a discussion...

Not trying to nitpick...but the issue Brad has to understand is not with pressure, but PEAK pressure. The differnece needs to be stated, IMHO.

Yes, pressure=velocity (technically the cumulative pressure effect on the base of the bullet)...but peak pressure=danger.

How many times has this been rehashed on these forums??? Twice a month???

Gents - the booklet Seafire is referring to is the 2004 booklet from Hodgdon (appx. 8"X6")...not the annual manual.