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Hi, today at the range I experienced 6-7 delayed ignitions over 40 rounds, for the first time in 20+ years of reloading. The weather was a little chill (0°/3°C) and I used for the first time CCI BR primers, for 300WM/180 gr. bullet/73 gr. of VV N160 and 270 WSM/130 gr. bullet/67.5 gr. of VV N560. Are CCI BR LR primers too weak for these amount of powder? I add that primers were correctly and carefully seated. Thanks. | ||
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FWIW only once in my life did I find "hang fires" and maybe I've been lucky..... Here's the good news.....I don't have a clue what caused it!!!! I'm not at all convinced it was a flawed primer..... It's greatest lesson is to hold the firearm in a safe direction until the chamber is cleared...it should happen to everyone at least once!!! Maybe someone knows what causes it....I'll look at this thread several times to see!!! I've since worked for "touchless priming"...where the primer is never touched by my hands and I sometimes think this has helped...but still not sure! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Just to be precise, delays were very short, I can guess 0.1/0.2 seconds but in one case almost 0.3/0.4. Groups were awful; definitely an unpleasant experience... | |||
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I had a genuine click...boom this fall. It sure is spooky. I was playing with lead bullets over Trapdoor charges of IMR3031. 405s worked great. The 300s left unburned powder in the case, chamber, and barrel, and gave me the hangfire. No more of that combination, thank you very much. | |||
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 In testing many large capacity rifles and slow burning powders along with some of the surplus ball powders click bangs are not that rare. Many, almost all, have been corrected by going to MAG PRIMERS. I'm not speaking as an expert on this topic, just passing on my findings.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I wouldn't use those primers in a case as big as the 300 mag, I'd certainly prefer magnum primers there. The only hangfire I've ever had was with CCI primers. I've had several out and out misfires with remington primers. As a result, I won't use either CCI's or remingtons any more. I use only federal primers, so far I haven't had any problems with them. | |||
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I had a couple hangfires with CCI primers a few years back with my 300 win mag. I think the primers were of the magnum variety. I've dumped them and moved on to Federal Match primers -210 and 215 - in everything I load for. | |||
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Misfires and hangfires are very rare incidents. When I have had them I believe it was due to a dud primer. I was talking to a Wimbleton Cup winner who used to use small rifle primers in cartridges like 308, 7mm-08, 6.5-08. I forget the exact cartridge but as he is a target shooter it would have been one of these medium capacity cartridges. He claimed the accuracy was better than the large rifle but that he got a significant number of misfires when the weather dropped below 50 degrees F. So maybe this batch of BR primers is not powerful enough to light off a magnum in cold weather. I would not be blaming the primers though, BR primers are designed for small and medium capacity cartridges (I assume, does anyone use the 300 Win Mag in BenchRest?). And per discussions I have had with some of the best target shooters in the World, they like mild primers. That is why the small rifle primer phenomena came about.. I would recommend you change primers to a magnum primer. I have shot perfect scores with them at 500 yards, it is only when you get to be world class do you need to worry about magnum primers not giving the accuracy you want. And I ain’t there yet. Incidentally military primers are magnum primers. They want the cartridge to go bang in the coldest of weather. And if my life was on the line, I would want that too. There is are other possibilities and without knowing anything about your rifle or your sizing technique, it is pure speculation, but it is possible that you oversized your cartridges, or the extractor is not holding the base against the bolt face, or you have grease in the bolt mechanism slowing down your firing pin. If the primer is just out of reach of the firing pin, well you will get misfires. If you have grease in the bolt, and it is cold, the firing pin is not going to hit as hard. Best Regards | |||
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It seems that our reloading brothers in Italy are a bit more accustomed to low temps if 0 degrees is a bit of a chill...in Jersey that is downright cold!! Merry Christmas NRA LIFE MEMBER You can trust the government. Look how well they took care of the American Indian... | |||
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Because you were shooting at or close to freezing I would degrease the bolt and try again. That said, I would be using a magnum primer at that temperature and with that much powder to burn.  Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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I had a few click/booms with CCI primers in 30-06, but that was almost 30 years ago. Being that I was fairly new to reloading, I blamed myself for a contamination problem. I've since moved on to Federal primers without incident. | |||
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Almost 20 years ago I had this problem using H380 powder in a 6mm Remington. I don't remember which primer I was using, but it was probably a Federal 210. When Iused IMR 4064 in the same rifle with the same primers I did not have the problem. So I concluded that the powder was the problem. (Admittedly, this was too little evidence to really establish that conclusion.) Today H380 is one of my favorite powders, and I've not had this delayed ignition problem with it, using regular (not magnum) primers of various brands. "How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?" | |||
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i had a few in a row moons ago, I attributed it to having over oiled the case necks and some of the oil soaking into the powder. Don't know if that was right or not, but cutting back on the lube solved the problem | |||
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The CCI primers have been the worst I've tried in rifle and pistol loads. I've always been able to achieve better accuracy and better consistancy w/ Wins or Feds w/ the Feds being the best in the mag carts. Switch to Federal 215 GMM primers in your magnums. Good Luck Reloader | |||
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sherical, ball powders with there coatings, need a hot magnum primer. I recall a 22-250 using H-450 that would start the powder burning, but then just quit. And that was using a mag. primer. | |||
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While the CCI BR-2 is purposfully a rather "mild" primer, it is far more than "hot" enough to set off a charge of ANY size of powder. Think about it folks: The two grains of powder sitting against the flashhole that is ignited by the primer doesn't know the whether it has 18 more grains sitting on top of it in a .222 or 95 more grains in a .416 Rigby. And it doesn't care. The "power" or "heat" of the primer is not your problem. This is not to say that a "hotter" primer might not give you better consistency and accuracy, simply to say that a "hotter" primer would have no effect on the hangfires. There are two potential sources for your hangfires. The first is that you have some primers that have somehow become contaminated. This was the source of the only hangfire problem I ever experienced (in 40+ years of reloading) and was due to some primed cases sitting upright, uncoverd, and unused on a shelf in the garage for YEARS before being loaded and fired. They exhibited notable hangfires. The second potential source is in the striker force of your gun being marginally weak, perhaps due in part to the cold. Since this problem occured in two separate guns, I opt for the contamination theory. Had your problem occured with some other brand of primers (Winchester, Federal, RWS, etc.), then you'd have gotten similar responses from shooters who have "never had a problem with any other brand than _______". If your problem had been with primers branded "magnum", then you would have gotten responses from shooters who have "never had a problem with anything other than magnum primers". We're only human and tend to think that our own limited experiences are representative of the entire universe of experience. You'll note that the only problem I've ever had with hangfires was a result of contaminated primers, so, by god, that is what HAS to be the cause of your problem, too!  | |||
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The more I read of Stonecreeks posts, the more I think he has his shit together. Good post!!!! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Most people would probably agree with you that I've got at least one kind of it together, that kind being the bull. I'll have to admit that most everything of value I know is from reading George Leonard Herter and Lenny Bruce. | |||
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"Benchrest primers are ballistically equivalent to the CCI200....and use the same reloading data" as stated on Speer rel. manual #13; therefore they are not supposed to be too weak, especially for the 270 WSM and his short column of powder. Weak striking force is unlikely, since the temperature was not too low and I experienced the same problem with 2 different new rifles, but primer contamination is unlikely too, since I bought them few weeks ago, the packing is perfect conditions and seems to have been manufactured (very) recently. A weak (defective) lot?  | |||
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I had that same problem several years back in my 350 Rigby when working up cast bullet loads using RL15. I found a very accurate load w/ CCI 200 primers in moderate weather, but when the temps dropped I got delayed ignition. I tried the same powder charge with CCI 200, 250, Fed 210 and Fed 215. Only the CCI 200's would cause hang fires. The primers were not defective as they had worked reliable in different chamberings, and different loads with that gun. I believe I read a test that indicated CCI 200's are the least brissiant std large rifle primers. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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Paul H, would you be so kind to translate in plain English the word "brissiant"? I could not find it in my 2 dictionaries. Thanks. | |||
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That's a misuse of the word "brisance," which is a French word referring to the shattering effect of high explosives. It's commonly been misused to refer to the force of a primer explosion. Force and brisance are two different things. We're not trying to reduce our powder grains to dust, which is what brisance does. (The standard test for brisance in explosives has long been to detonate a small charge in a container of coarse sand, then sift it to see how much sand was pulverized to dust.) Paul H. isn't responsible for the error; it's been used by ignorant American gun writers for decades. "A cheerful heart is good medicine." | |||
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Thanks!  | |||
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There was a primer test published some time back and if I recall correctly there were a couple of mis-fires with CCI BR primers at low temps. The most accurate and consistent loads I've ever had are in a .308 using CCI BR primers under Varget, but I never use them for bigger cartridges or ball powder. And I can't recall ever using them at very low temps. Winchester LR primers seem to light up to at least 80 grains of anything ok at any temp. "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill | |||
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To add to the discussion: The only primer problems i've encoutered were from using(the old days) the old ink pad lube pads and.... well, you know. Since then, I can't recall a failure regardless of what they were used in. And i've shot my share at most every venue regardless of brand name or temperature. To conclude, I wish our elected ass holes were as near consistant. It's not primers you need to worry about!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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VV, Nosler, Hodgdon, and Hornady all recommend mag primers in their load data for the 270 WSM. (Oddly Speer doesn`t) I don`t know the reason for the hangfires experianced by the original poster but, do suspect the powder and bullet makers are likely on to something when they all agree on a primer recommendation for a given cartridge. JMO......  ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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Obviously all of us must guess what causes hang-fires, all the evidence gets blow away when it does go off! My guess for why hang-fires seem to be more common that they used to be is the recent rise in using tumblers. I suspect bits of media are clogging a lot of flash holes. Maybe, maybe not. ?? I do check EACH flash hole before priming. But, also maybe, your primers were crushed a bit during seating? Or not seated quite far enough to properly pre-stress the compound? All we can do is seat the best we can and hope for the best. I've not had a hang-fire since about 1970, some five years after I started. I've used about everything on the market but mostly Remington and Federal because they were available. Don't remember if it was one of them, Alcan or CCI that I did have a few hang ups with so long ago. I doubt that case lube in a neck would cause a hang up or failure to fire but cleanlyness has to help. There is a can of denatured alcohol and roll of paper towels at the end of my bench. I now prime with Lee Autoprimers and rarely touch a cap, but I still alcolhol clean and de-grease my hands before I even reach for a box of primers. And I "finger" each seated primer to feel if it is just slightly below level. Has it helped? I really don't know, I do know I've had no such failures for a LOOONG time1 I would love to use small rifle primers in my .308, 7-08, .243 but don't know where to find any bushings!  | |||
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I'm surprised to see this one back again. I have enough evidence to indicate there is a co-relation betwen large capacity cases , standard primers, certain ball powders and delayed ignition. Ever notice the size of a 50 BMG cartridge primer ? It is a real event, believe it or not.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I live in warm state and I stay away from ball powders. They tend to be position sensitive, hard to ignite and prone to click booms and huge fire balls with mild loads. However for all the primer discussion you can have ignition problems at reduced temperatures that are caused by the rifle. A rifle that has a lot of grease inside the bolt on a coil main spring or one with a so called short fall speed lock striker may cause ignition problems. | |||
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There are insects that will make nests in small holes like flash holes.
Oops!.... I never bother with clean hands! Maybe I should start now.... I actually pick up primers with lube on my fingers. (Well, ... I do wipe them first!) The only misfire I had was solved with a second cocking. I suspect my bolt handle wasn't all the way down.  My rifle also has a weak firing pin strike.I have dismantled a batch of inconsistant cartridges to find the powder near the bullet to be contaminated with grease or something. The powder further back was dry.
Regards 303Guy | |||
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