Just loaded some ammo last night. I had three old cans of IMR 4831. All of this powder was in the 10 to 20 year old range. Two cans had rust on the outside. One had lots of red powder in the propellant. That was obvioulsy bad. The second had rust inside and a small amount of red powder on top of the propellant. Neither smelled of ether. Bot became lawn fertilizer, $25 a pound fertilizer! The final one was fine and I used some.



I did check all my powder a couple of years ago. I have been storing it in a cabinent about 6' above the floor. It does not get real hot here in coastal California. Even so should I store it on the cement floor to keep it cooler?



Anyone ever actually had a can of powder spontaniously combust due to decomposition? I have only had slow burining extruded powder go bad. Is it more likely to go bad compared to faster burners, ball and double base powder?

I'm surprised. I think of IMR 4831 as being the "new kid" on the block and wouldn't have drempt of any going bad since it has only been around for a "few" (30 some-odd) years.

I have a fair supply of original surplus 4831 that is going on 60 years old, has never been "specially" stored, and shoots just like the day it came out of Bruce Hodgdon's grain elevator.

But your description of your powder outlines the classic symptoms of powder deterioration. You were wise to donate it to the lawn.

Sounds like more of a moisture issue.
The ether smell, if not overpowering does not allway indicate bad powder. The bad smell is when the powder has an acrid, acid like smell.
Your temperatures there on the coast are probably ideal for long term storage.
I store my powder in Coleman style picnic coolers to minimize temperature changes and moisture exposure. You can even squirt a bead of clear silicon sealant (about $2.99 at the lumberyard) around the top edge of the cooler body. Put some plastic food wrap ("Saran" wrap) over the bead, then close the lid. It is now airtight, and the lid won't stick to the cooler body.
JCN

Should have been more clear on the ether smell. Ether smell is good. That mean you have nice fresh powder with the manufacturing solvents till there. No smell means all the solvents are gone. Nasty irritating smell with red powder is bad. I had some nasty old 4895, many years ago that gave off red vapors. Very, very bad. That would be nitrous oxide. I was very young, hard up and ignorant. I winnowed out the red stuff and shot it. Seemed to go bang and did not hurt me or the rifle. Now I spread it on the lawn.

So what of the spontaionious combustion concearns, is it real??

When a powder decomposes heat is liberated and when stored in large quantites the heat can build up to reach the ignition point. With the small quantites a handloader has on hand, ignition doesn't seem to be a real risk. Single base powder is more susceptible to decomposition while double base has NG which acts as a stabilizer. Double base powders are more stable than single base powder but do rapidly break down at higher temperatures. As a matter of fact I have never seen a 'bad' ball powder' or for that matter a 'bad' double base powder. In my own experience, the slower powders such as IMR4350 and IMR4381 have shown more tendency to decompose than the faster powders.

***The Following Post is for Entertainment Purposes Only***
Don't try this at home kids, but I have heard of the following technique for disposing of red powder. If your local shooting range has an 8 year long waiting list there is a good bet that there are some "more mature" shooters there that joined in 1938. They also tend to be "thrifty". They will jump at the chance for some free Unique powder that is only 45 years old.
Who knows, the waiting list might even get shorter.
***The Preceding Post was for Entertainment Purposes Only***
JCN
Oops, gotta go. There are contigents of Gray Panthers at the front (and back) doors with 1911's and ropes.