Before you totally discard the make/type and never use it again?

For me one time. If I ever get a failure...it is done! Unless the maker makes some really drastic changes to the design!

I had a balistic tip fail me on deer, never again!! I have sense heard some glowing reports on them but you know the saying. First time shame on you, second time shame on me!

There are just to many good hunting bullets to get caught up in trying to figure out why one failed and trying to make it work, just move on.

The question is too general. There are many fine, premium bullets, that if given the right set of circumstances, will "fail".

Nothing is "fail proof" out there. Some are just better designed for certain applications than others.

If I ever had a Partition "fail", I'd certainly use them again. They have too much reputation behind them to give up on one example.

As I wrote earlier, last fall I shot three deer, all with identical bullets, from the same rifle, under the same conditions, at roughly the same distances. One was a classic mushroom under the far-side hide (no blood trail at all). One disintegrated and left pieces through to the far side (great blood trail). The last one was a complete pass-through (blood only in the last few feet of the trail). Every deer ran. Which one "failed"? The mushroom left no blood, the blow-up left the best blood trail. Yes, they all killed the deer, but what would normally be considered a bullet failure was the easiest one to recover.

If you hit the shoulder joint on a mature bull elk, and the bullet came apart, is that a "failure"? Not many bullets can be counted on to punch through that kind of bone on a consistent basis.

I guess what it boils down to is taking into account all of the circumstances. This is a question that doesn't have a cut & dried answer to it, at least for me...

Coldbore:

I have never heard of a failure in a Partition...Hence my respect for them! Ballistic tips never failed me on varmints hence my continued use of them. However I have seen and heard some Nosler BT's fail on big game and Sierra Gameking and Matchkings (my hugest pet peeve!!!!!) fail by the truck load!

I think this is too general a question to admit of any simple answer because it doesn't define what it means for a bullet to "fail." Bullets can fail in different ways, and what counts as failure in one situation may not matter at all in another.

Since I have never had one "fail", I don't know exactly how to answer this.

But I would say that once is enough...

It would depend on the "failure". My buddy took a nice 5-pt bull elk a few yaers ago w/ the old 180gr Silvertip/.30-06. The bullet blew up on a 75yd perfect broadside lung shot. For me that is a failure & I wouldn't use this bullet on elk size game in close.
I have had enough reports on the Nosler BTs to never use them myself as a big game bullet.

I keep hearing the phrase, "the bullet blew up". Exactly what does that mean? Does it still kill the animal? What does the wound track look like? I have shoot some SX bullets at varmints that were supposed to blow up. The resulting carnage was pretty disgusting.

Many, many years ago, I shot some 105gr speer hot core bullets at a mule deer from a .243. The deer trotted off as if he wasn't touched even tho my partner said he could hear the bullets strike. No blood trail and after a sustained hunt, no deer. I've never had any use for neither the calibre nor the bullet since.

bee, in the case I refered to, the bullet didn't exit & we only found pieces under the hide. Yes the bull died, infact fell within 25yds, but the bullet never touched bone, not even a rib. I expect better performance from big game bullets, especially on elk size game. BTW, I agree w/ you on the use of .243 for big game, good varmint round but eventually it will let you down on big game.

what made you think your bullet failed fredj??? looks to me like it worked.....


THE 2ND AMENDMENT PROTECTS US ALL.........



NOW IS ABSOLUTELY THE WORST TIME TO TRY AND DISARM ME.....

Blow up means little or no penetration. Usually thinner bullet jackets at high velocity cause this situation. You need to see it several times to beleave it.I'm talking a wound on the skin only. Have you hunters seen this ?

Tasco, I call it a failure because the bullet would have caused a long tracking job & a suffering animal had my buddy not put it exactly boradside between the ribs. If the bull had been 1/4 away I think the bullet never reaches vitals. As I said, yes the bull died, but to me, the bullet "failed".

Cole, to answer you and Beeman, my idea of blow up would be exactly what the BT did for me.

150 grain Balistic Tip, 7-08, small buck at around 20 yards. Deer was quartering away at an angle that a shot just at the liver would put the exit on the off side front shoulder. The bullet hit a rib and left a softball sized hole in the skin that his intrails (kidneys?) came out of and sealed the hole off from bleeding. The deer ran about 75 yards and stopped broadside in clear view. I put a second shot just under and forward his ear and ofcourse this shot was lethal.

When I field dressed the deer the only thing I could find of the first bullet was small holes and small pieces of lead in his intestines and stomach. I found this to be more odd than the blow up on the skin since that showed that the fragments of the bullet ended up going toward the rear of the animal, comepletely the opposite direction it was traveling when it hit.

No flames please! This experience made me anti-balistic tip but if you are not that is fine with me!

Here is my 2 cents worth. I use nothing but Remington core locks on big game (white tails and bigger Unless in shotgun area I use the biggest slug I can find for a good price). For yotes and smaller I use spitzer boat tails or Balistic tips 55gr in my 223 or 85gr silver tips in my 25/06. Have not had any fail me for the game I was after.

Ray

I've never had this happen, but I'm sure I agree. If a bullet ever failed when I used it, I would change bullets....

I agree Pop. Once is too often! The real question is "what is a bullet failure?"
It reminds me of the old quote "At what point in killing the animal did the bullet fail?"
If I am using a bullet for the first time in the field, and it fails to drop the animal when I think it should. I won't use that load on game again. If I have used a bullet effectively several times and then fails to drop an animal, then I could consider other factors, but if I feel that the bullet has failed to deliver the expected performance - penetration, expansion, even "knock down" then I won't use it again. I go even further: If I miss my first shot at game with a scope, it goes. If a rifle malfunctions in the field, it either gets revamped to the point where I am convinced it will never happen again, or it goes too. There are so many choices, we don't have to settle for something with even a hint of being unreliable.

Just another 2C worth. If the hunter knew the bullet and what it did on impact, and shot accordingly, I have never seen a bullet failure. If the hunter didn't know the bullet, cartridge, or gun, and shot any shot anyway, yes, I have seen bullet failure. My Dad shot a 270 most of his adult life, and was happy with the 130 grain load that, in my opinion, was not the bullet of choice. He took only shots that gave "blow up" in the heart/lung area, and only had a problem when the animal made a sudden movement at the time of the shot, causing other than intended impact. On occasion, I have seen him trail such an animal long distances and recover the animal, but did the bullet fail, no. I have drifted to Nosler Partitions, and larger calibers, mostly by choice, not need. I like complete pass thru and larger holes as opposed to small holes and "make the bullet big" expansion after the impact, but that is still a choice. Is there a wrong combo for big game?, yes, there is. It is the combo that a hunter uses without knowing what it will do, and taking the shot anyway. Are some combos better than others, yes, if ability to take any shot offered is better. It still requires that the hunter know the bullet, cartridge, gun, and animal, to make it work. It comes down to choosing an adequate tool for the job, which means you understand the job and its requirements. For me, that means pass thru and large caliber, others have differing demands. Just like I don't use a screwdriver to change a spark plug, I don't use a target bullet for big game. But, it's all JMHO!

cole: a friend and i discussed the use of light bullets on whitetails for months after we started shooting together regularly. he had always used light guns and light fast bullets on deer. he was careful to take good shots but i always posed the question "what are you going to do when the bull buck of a lifetime comes in and you have to take that shoulder shot or the frontal shot that light bullets can't handle. are you going to be the good hunter and let him walk due to the bad shot offered or are you going to take the chance?" his response was what do you think. i responded by saying any good hunter would not go to the woods with that weapon and make those choices especially when he had other options. at thanksgiving he gave his older 13 year old son a 243 with 75 grain hollow point bullets. he had shot all the 100 grain spire points sighting in over the weekend. the 243 was deadly accurate but the son was not experienced enough to understand what his father had given him to shoot. the son asked to take his 30-30 which he was very comfortable with. never the less a 185lb 11 point walked out at 35-40 yards on the boy. he was shooting down a steep incline and he hit the buck high in the shoulder. he had always heard me talk about breaking a big buck down and anchoring him. if its horns i'll shoot into both shoulders and typically i use nosler partitions. i hunt primarily with a 280 and a 280 ackley. i use the 150 grain partition. i also hunt mostly by myself. in any event the buck ran off only leaving a spot of blood. the son went to get his dad before tracking. they searched the whole evening and into the night. the next day they returned and searched until lunch. no luck. he called me and asked my opinion. i told him that the bullet failed and the buck would either heal and be fine or die from infection. either way he let his son down. the boy did what he felt was the right thing. the crazy thing about this story is that the brother (10yr old) that very next evening had the 11 pt walk in on him at a nearby stand that he and his dad shared. the boy shot the deer with his daddy's 35 remington lever gun. the buck fell 2 or 3 steps from the shot. at the time the dad did not know this was the same deer. when he rolled the deer over he saw the first son's shot high in the shoulder. the 75 grain HP penetrated just under the skin and left a place like a quarter sized blister. when we cleaned the deer the bullet fragments were paper thin and hardly visible in the area. complete failure. in this case the failure happened in the decision to use such a light bullet. the father will not talk about the situation and feels very badly that he misguided his son. the boy said daddy don't worry about it. im okay, im glad luke got to kill the buck and we got to see that i wasn't joking when i said i shot at a monster. the dad said he learned a valuable lesson and it was worse because it had not happened to him but his son who may never get that type of opportunity again. it was really a nice buck. i keep a picture in my office to tell people of the story in hopes that i can educate them.

Hornady SST and Interlock, any caliber above 243. Venison steak, mashed potatos and gravy, on time every time...Shot and reloaded since 1949. Hornady far and above when it comes to bullets..Also second choice for light weight game, deer, antelope,etc....the original ballistic tip bullet that has been around before any of the others were thought of-------the Remington 150 grain Bronze point... IMHO of course....SB

I've posted this before but I think its still germaine. Many years ago when I fished bass tournies, the conventional wisdom was to rig for the largest bass you hoped to catch in the worst conditions you might encounter. I think that wisdom applies nicely to hunting also.

I've never had a bullet fail to kill a deer, but I have had bullets fail to do what I expect of them and that's exit on a broadside shot. If a bullet won't exit on a broadside shot through the ribs at least 99.99% of the time, then I don't want to use it. Right now my bullets of choice are the Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition and Nosler Accubond. I especially like the new Barnes bullet.

Snider700 Good story, speed doesn't always kill. Saw a 150gr plastic tip explode on a pronghorn (thru binos)from a 300mag. The buck trotted off! 100gr Sierra from a 25/06 blew up on an antelope at close range and did not break the skin,but blew off a patch of fur. A piece of the bullet hit it in the neck and killed it.

to add to that, i shot my first buck (130lb 3 pt.) years ago at about 25 steps with my dads 7mm mag and 154 grain hornady spire pts. he reloaded them in his words "hot". they hit the point of the shoulder on a quarter slightly forward shot. the buck collapsed as if bricks had landed on him. boy was i happy. when the cleaning started i learned many things. the bullet completely fragmented under the skin upon hitting the bone. the hole was the size of a softball on the entrance side just under the skin. the meat loss was terrible. when i got to studying things i knew that extreme speed and ill placed bullets equal failures. the deer is dead but at a great loss. needless to say i took up loading on my own and looked for the proper bullet and load to match what i was trying to do with it. since i have had no such stories to tell. my rule of thumb is to try and acquire a pencil hole in and no larger than quarter hole coming out. this is not always possible due to angles and selected shot placements when in the field. with this said when i do get one i call it a clean kill with good bullet performance. nosler partitions have given me this clean kill standard of mine the most often. this is just a fun game i play with myself each year when i harvest my required amt. of does. ive shot them at all ranges and all angles to test my loads. do not get me wrong here. i take good shots and put good placement on these shots. i just vary the yards and angles. never has a deer gone more than 40 yards. i like nosler partitions for various speeds and yardages. they work the best for me and the levels i desire. may not work for others. just my 2 cents.

Snyder, you have pretty much nailed it.For the guys shooting "slower" std. carts, say under 2500fps impact, then I think conventional bullets will work fine, most of the time. When you start getting impact speeds over that, the bullet needs to hang together. Nosler partitions seem to do this w/ great regularity. Some of the other "premiums" do too, I have never had a NP not do what I thought it should & I don't have to wait for the perfect broadside shot if it never comes. Good hunting guys!

"I have never heard of a failure in a Partition..."

1975, California Blacktail (130lbs), neck shot, 6mm Rem, partition bullet,

Bullet penetrates, expansion insufficient, deer runs, second shot breaks neck, deer dies.

Nosler partitions are not perfect for everything. In the case of smaller deer they are not "all that". Faster expansion with the smaller cartridges on smaller deer is a higher percentage bet.

It is all about percentages. There is a lot to go wrong and much target variation from shot to shot. We are shooting living animals, not ballistic gelatin. IF you shoot enough game, every bullet will surprize you.

My father was the 6mm and 257 fan. I shoot 7 Mag, 308s, 30-06, 30-40, 45-70 and other moderate velocity bigger stuff. If you shoot an adequate rifle you get some room for error. A factory 165 gr 30 cal soft point at anything over 2500 fps. will flatten any smalish deer. I don't have to worry about fancy bullets, I hedge the bet with an adequate caliber!

I DONT KNOW OF ANY BULLET TO "FAIL" AS LONG AS THE PERSON KNOWS WHAT THE BULLET IS CAPABLE OF(NOT WHAT THE MANUFACTURER RECOMENDS, AS MOST OF THEM GUYS ARE JUST TRYING TO SELL A PRODUCT. YES I HAVE USED MATCHKINGS AND WILL USE THEM AGAIN) AS WELL AS THE CALIBER. IF A DEER IS QUARTERING AWAY AND YOU ARE USEING BALLISTICS, THEN FOR PETES SAKE WAIT FOR A BETTER SHOT. IF A PERSON GOES INTO THE WOODS TO HUNT, THEN HE MUST HAVE A CERTAIN DEGEE OF PATIENCE, SO BE PATIENT AND WAIT FOR THE PROPER SHOT OR GET OUT OF THE WOODS. MY FIRST CENTERFIRE RIFLE WAS A 222 REM AND AT 10 YEARS OLD MY DAD TAUGHT ME THE BASICS OF HUNTING WHICH IS PATIENCE,PATENCE, PATENCE. AS I GOT OLDER AND MORE CONFIDENT IN THE GUN ANYTHING INSIDE 200 YRDS WAS SHOT IN THE NECK. THIS JUST GOES TO SAY "KNOW YOUR GUN AND YOUR OWN CAPABILITIES" BEFORE SHOOTING AT GAME. WE OWE THAT TO THE GAME WE ARE HUNTING. JUST BECAUSE YOU GET HURRIED, TAKE A BAD SHOT, OR MAKE A BAD SHOT, DO NOT CLAIM "BULLET FAILURE"
SO IN MY OPINION THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BULLET FAILURE, ONLY OPERATOR AND COMMEN SENSE FAILURE.

TEXAS---a few years back Gary Sciuchetti did an article on bullet performance. 38 differant makes and models of bullets at 1400 to 3100fps. pictures of groups of 3 each at 100fps intervales. have a 30"x40" wall chart . Matchkings had the highest core and jacket separation with least amount of penetration of any bullet tested.

Cole, I think that if a "hunter" used the Matchking on an elk for a body pass thru shot from the elks rear to the front, it would result in a wounded animal. What would have failed is the "hunter", not the bullet or the gun. Like taking out a spark plug with a screwdriver, the "hunter" may get it done eventually, but the "hunter" chose the wrong tool. It sounds like most people are saying the same thing in different ways on this issue. Tool #1 (brain) has to be used first.

I have never had a Nosler Ballistic Tip fail on deer in my .300 Win. mag. I have shot more deer than I can count from say 50 yards to 350+ and never have had the 165 grain bullet fail. Once on the 350+ kill it failed to give compleat pass thru only after traveling thru the neck at a forward quartering angle and through the off shoulder. I found the remains of the bullet poking thru the hide on the off side. The buck dropped in his tracks. His insides were turned to jello. The bullet did it's job but I like pass thrus so I no shoot 180 grain BT's in this rifle. This year the new load worked fine on a broadside doe at about 150 yards. Time will tell.

I am still testing 125 grain BT's in my .308. So far one kill at about 100 yards. This bullet load combo was worked up for varmits but is proving to work on close broadside shooting. Would I trust it for any shot? No I would not. However I trust my juudgement of when to, and when not to pull the trigger.

COLE, TELL THAT TO THE NUMEROUS ANIMALS THAT HAVE FALLEN TO THE MATCH KING, NOT TO MENTION THE BIG GAME HUNTERS IN AFRICA TO THE AVERAGE HUNTER ANYWHERE ELSE. I HAVE USED THE MATCHKING ON EVERY GUN OF MINE FROM THE 222 REM TO THE 280 REMINGTON AND NEVER, MAY I REPEAT NEVER HAVE I HAD A ANIMAL LOST OR WOUNDED. I HAVE HAD PERFECT MUSHROOMS THAT I FOUND ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE IN THE SKIN TO COMPLETE PASS THROUGHS FROM VARIOS YARDAGES. IS THE BULLET "RECOMENDED" FOR HUNTING APPLICATIONS, NO, BUT EXPERIANCE HAS TAUGHT ME THE POTENTIAL OF THE BULLET AND KNOWLEGE OF WHERE TO PLACE THE BULLET AT THE RIGHT TIME OF THE HUNT. NOW IS THE MK THE ONLY BULLET I USE FOR HUNTING, NO, BUT IT DARN SURE WILL NOT BE RULED OUT IN DEVELOPING A LOAD FOR HUNTING.
JACOBITE, KNOWING WHEN TO AND WHEN NOT TO PULL THE TRIGGER IS 95% OF HUNTING. I DONT KNOW IF ANY OF YOU BOWHUNT, BUT BEING AN AVID BOWHUNTER KNOWING YOUR SHOT AND YOUR CAPABILITIES WITH THE BOW PUTS A MAJOR RESTRICTION ON THE SHOTS YOU TAKE, SO WHY SHOULD RIFLE HUNTING BE ANY DIFFERENT? KNOW YOUR EQUIPMENT AND YOUR CABILITIES AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO BLAME MISFORTUNE ON "BULLET FAILURE"