I just bought the Hornady Reloading Guide and it seem to me like there maximum loads are considerably lower than in other Reloading Guides ! Is it their bullets or are they just more cautious then others ? Do you know what Hornady’s Max load is ? Is it 90%...95% ?

Thanks,
Ingvar Johann

I don't have that manual, but if you ask to Hornady, they will certainly reply you that "max is max". IMO if you try to add 1 or 2 gr of powder to a supposed max load, you will only gain 20-30 m/s, but pressure will raise by 300-400 bar, or even more with smaller cases. Personally I've never felt the need of those further 20-30 m/s.

gents--take the loads from all manuals add them divide by no. of entries--your starting point-use a chrony and add or subtract powder accordling. also--USE COMMON SENSE

Hornady has always been lower than other manuals going back to the mid 1960s.

Barstooler

Two Canoes-

I see where you are coming from mathematically, but that doesn't take into account the different structures of different bullets. E.g. longer bearing surface, harder construction et cet. Nosler, for example, was quite emphatic that loads for its Fail Safe bullets had to be started at the minimum due to their construction.

Regards,

LWD

Ingvar,

I have been reloading since the late 1950s and have noticed this, too. Allow me to share some thoughts as to the probable reasons.

First is that bullet jacket hardness and bullet core hardness, along with bearing area in the bore have a lot to do with pressure for a given bullet. I have QuickLoad, and the differences between bullets from, say, Speer and Hornady are quite pronounced, even with the same loads.

Second, is the universal trend to actually using pressure gun and chronograph testing instead of estimation by case pressure signs as a method for deriving maximum loads. The old manuals tended to use case pressure signs, which is like reading tea leaves. Pressure guns are far more reliable.

Third is that these manuals are meant for the U.S. market, primarily. That means that the companies must build in a level of lawyer proofing to protect themselve.

Hope that helps.

The Hornady manual does post significantly lower (more conservative) loads than other manuals. When it comes to max loads, I always compare the manuals to the powder manufacturers' web data. My personal opinion is that the powder manufacturers are the experts with their powders and will have tested them with various different bullet designs in the same weight to come up with their data. At the same time even with these slightly higher than manual-quoted loadings, they will no doubt have some legal safety margin built in by the lawyers (not that I do, or suggest exceeding their max loads).

quote:

Originally posted by Tikka_T3:
The Hornady manual does post significantly lower (more conservative) loads than other manuals. When it comes to max loads, I always compare the manuals to the powder manufacturers' web data. My personal opinion is that the powder manufacturers are the experts with their powders and will have tested them with various different bullet designs in the same weight to come up with their data. At the same time even with these slightly higher than manual-quoted loadings, they will no doubt have some legal safety margin built in by the lawyers (not that I do, or suggest exceeding their max loads).

Funny, I`ve never felt the Hornady manual was any different then the others over all. True one cartridge might seem to be under loaded a gr or two but the next one will flip flop and Hornadies data will be higher a hair. I took a quick look at the Hornady, Speer, and Nosler books and found with the following common cartridges this data.

270 Winchester
130 gr bullet / IMR4350

Hornady; 54.6gr
Speer; 55.0gr
Nosler 55.0gr

130 gr / R22gr

Horandy; 61.3gr
Speer; 58gr
Nosler; 58gr

130 gr / W760

Hornady; 54.4gr
Speer; 54.0gr
Nosler; 54.0gr

150 gr Bullet / R19

Hornady; 55.1gr
Speer; 53.0gr
Nosler; 55gr

150 / AA3100
Hornady; 56 gr
Speer; 57 gr
Nosler; 55 gr

30-06 Springfield
150 gr / IMR4350

Hornady; 59.9 gr
Speer; 58 gr
Nosler; 59 gr

150/Win 760

Hornady; 59.1gr
Speer; 57 gr
Nosler; 57 gr

150 gr/ VVn140

Hornady; 51.2 gr
Speer; 51 gr
Nosler; 51 gr

7MM Remington Mag
175 gr / IMR7828

Hornady; 61.5 gr
Speer; 65 gr
Nosler; 63 gr

175 gr / H1000

Hornady 60.4 gr
Speer; 65 gr
Nosler; 65.5 gr

175 gr / AA-8700
Hornady; 74.7 gr
Speer; 75 gr
Nosler73.5 gr

These were the powders I found at a glance that were used in all three books for these COMMONLY loaded cartridges. You will notice the Hornady data is usually very close and at times higher then the data from the other sources.

Simple powder lot differences could esily account for the different charges listed by all three books. I`ve heard the powder companies claim powders may vary 10% between lots of the same powder, and none of these charges vary that much.

BTW; The powder companies IMO take the bullet that gives the highest pressures/velocity when used with their powder and then uses it in their data. This allows them to be safe with other bullets people may use and show high velocity with their powder to boot, a win-win situation for them.

I have only an elder Horn Manual, newest one is on order.

IMHO the Hornady Handbook sometimes gives lower vels, becuase the load increments are according to vel "jumps", e.g. 2650 ft/s, 2700, 2750, ... you get the point! ( sometimes 2600, 2700, 2800 ! )

Whereas other manuals give the max load and velocity and don´t care for "round" or "comparative" figures. So there might be some decimals of a grain more powder, giving e.g. then 2725 ft/s ...

Just my opinion, H

My 300 H&H shows pressure signs at about 3/4 of maximum where my other guns show no signs with full power loads. Some of them shoot their best with midrange loads while others require full power loads for the best accuracy. I like to take each gun individually and work up in one grain increments until I have an accurate load or until the chrongragh, loading book, or pressure signs say that I have reached maximum. Gaining a little bit of extra velocity is not worth the price paid for in shortened case life.

quote:

Originally posted by Ingvar J. Kristjansson:
I just bought the Hornady Reloading Guide and it seem to me like there maximum loads are considerably lower than in other Reloading Guides ! Is it their bullets or are they just more cautious then others ? Do you know what Hornady’s Max load is ? Is it 90%...95% ?

Thanks,
Ingvar Johann

Ingvar,
I use them as a guide, I compare loads from three or four different sources when I develop loads for my rifles.
I actually have a 22.250 where the maximum load that Hornady lists with H380 is way over pressure in my gun.

I've found Hornady's manual as good as any, right about where they should be on loads. I have all of the different manuals and use them as a guide, then start low on the powder charge and work up. I've had a load I got in the Speer Manual the is shown as below max that was way hot in a 257 Roberts with RL-19. Bolt opened HARD, with a flattened primer.
Start low on powder charges, and work up for your rifle. Your rifle may be far different from the ones used by the manual makers when they develop loads.

Don

A scream isn't it. We all know each rifle is a law unto its self, and yet people insist on the loading manuals stating the "maximum".

I've said before (using logic) that there is no real maximum, as it depends on the guess/bravado of the handloader and what he wants to accept.

As for Hornady listing low, well I started using their manual printed about 1973 for a Swift. One load seemed at least a grain light and so when I changed to a heavier bullet I went straight to their listed max.

Well nothing actually blew up, but I got cured of that bad habit real quick.
Did they lie about the "max". No, different gun used was all.

As soon as primers start to flatten and/or bolts start to get hard to lift I back off real fast, regardless of what the book says.

Funny thing is in most guns the max load isnt necessarily or even usually the most accurate.

I recall an old saying that one would rather be missed by an elepohant gun than hit by a .22.

I reckon there is some logic in that and brass lasts a lot longer.

Just my conservative 0.02

Ol' Joe,

I agree with you on the .270. However do the same exercise with .223 REM. It is mainly with the .224 calibres / varmint calibres that major differences occur:

.223 REM
55gr bullet / H335

Hornady: 23.2gr
Speer: 26.0gr
Lyman: 27.0gr


.223 REM
75gr bullet / Varget

Hornady: 23.5gr
Speer: n/a
Lyman: 25.6

Even with .25-06 Hornady is about 1.5gr less than Lyman with its max load. It seems the heavier you go, the more consistent between manuals. Could it be that the smaller calibres are more experimented with for extremely hot loads and some manual producers feel the need for greater liability protection?