I'd be interesting in knowing your top performing load for hunting big game - especially at long range. Others might be interested as well. Mine are as follows:

257 Roberts AI - 60 grs. MRP-2, 110 gr. Accubond, 3410 fps, 26" barrel.

25-06 AI - 62 grs. Re25, 115 gr NBT, 3400 fps, 26" barrel.

280 AI - 67 grs. Re25, 150 gr. NPT, 3225 fps, 26" barrel.

30-06 AI - 69 grs. MRP, 165 gr. Accubond, 3200 fps, 26.5" barrel.

300 WM - 83 gr. Re25, 180 gr. Accubond, 3300 fps, 26.5" barrel.

375 H&H AI - 94 grs. MRP, 300 gr. SGK, 2933 fps, 26.5" barrel.

All max and accurate with at least 5 reloads per case.

no takers?

Top performing in what respect?

LWD

All your loads seem to focus on velocity. I tend to judge my hunting loads performance on terminal effects.

Unfortunately at very long range you are back to hitting with the likes of a 30-30 at close range.
No self respecting HV nut wants to admit that.

What ever you consider top performing would be of interest.

I like velocity, because I shoot at long range. My last mule deer was shot at 515 yards with the '06 AI load.

Hunting successfully on public land is getting more and more difficult. I'm finding that, if you want to get a nice buck, you'd best have the option to shoot at long range. Having some energy at 500 yards helps drop the critters, especially if they're elk.

Also, as a reloader, I find it challenging to get the maximum performance at acceptable PSI by optimizing components. It's amazing what's possible these days with modern bullets and powders.

quote:

30-06 AI - 69 grs. MRP, 165 gr. Accubond, 3200 fps, 26.5" barrel.

How do you fit this much MRP in the case?

Hey AIU, Seems like you are having a bit of trouble getting the answers you were seeking.

For l-o-n-g Range, I've actually used 4 cartridges a good bit. I don't quote actual amounts of Powder anymore, and I sure don't waste my time with a chronograph. All at a SAFE MAX with way more than 5 loads per case.

300WinMag 165gr. Bullets are primarily the B-Tips, GameKings and Speer(non Hot-Cor) Boat Tails. All work extremely well at distance.

7mmRemMag 140gr, 145gr, and 150gr. Bullets of the same type as above.

30-06 and 308Win 150gr and 165gr. All kinds of Bullets here. Made some of my Very BEST, most memorable shots with Round Nose Designs. Never used RNs beyond 400yds though. Need to include Hornady Interlocks, Win PPs, and Rem PSPs with the other brands in these rifles. Great Cartridges for Standard Grade Bullets.
-----

For closer Varmint Killing(300yds and closer):

22Hornet 45gr Nosler Sold Bases and Sierra. Wasted 35 years wrestling with a lot of 22Hornets.(150yds and closer.)

223Rem 50gr. Bullets primarily B-Tips for BBQ Loads and the very inexpensive, amazingly accurate Rem PLHP for normal carry. Just got a truck load of 52gr Sierras and I do expect them to be accurate and work well on-varmints - but, that is simply a guess based on what I've experienced with their other Bullets.

For normal Big Game out to 400yds and closer:

I've used lots of in-between cartridges that work well with nearly any Standard Grade Bullet. If I know there is a chance the Bullet must drive through a row of Beans, then the never-fail, always-reliable Nosler Partitions or the old, no-longer-made "two-core Design" Grand Slams are in the Case. Otherwise, it could be about any Standard Grade Hornady, Remington, Sierra, or Speer. I don't use many Noslers anymore because of their Cost, but they are still excellent Bullets when properly used.

350RemMag and 200gr Hornady Spire Points simply slams Game to the ground for me. Probably lots of other Bullets currently being made would do as well, but when it comes time for a serious "Up-Close" Killer, I have a lot of confidence in this combination. The only down-side with this 20" barrel rifle is the amount of noise.

444Mar XLR - needs a lot of Field time with 240gr, 270gr and 300gr Bullets, but it will be up-close Killing.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

NED, I can get 71 grains of MRP in an '06 AI case (RWS or Lapua). I use a drop tube from Sinclair and tap the case while slowly feeding in the powder, then compress the powder with the bullet. No problem. MRP is a great powder, worth trying. I also like Re25.

Hot Core, thanks for the nice response. I've settled on NBTs and Accubonds for long range work. Although often bad mouthed, NBTs have killed quickly and humanely in my experience.

308WIN
FED brass- WLR- Hornady 165 BTSP- H4895 41.5 gr.
I have killed whitetail from 20 yards running to 285 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
... I've settled on NBTs and Accubonds for long range work. Although often bad mouthed, NBTs have killed quickly and humanely in my experience.

Hey AIU, I've not tried the Accubonds, but it does seem most folks are very happy with them.

Not real sure how many Deer I've Killed with various Diameter and various Weights of the B-Tips. Never had any kind of "Bullet Failure" with them. I think I've used B-Tips from 4 different Generations of Design changes. The original ones expanded very quickly(for me) regardless of the Diameter or Weight. The best shot for them was behind a shoulder headed toward the offside shoulder. As they got tougher(later Designs), I had no problem with normal Shoulder-to-Shoulder Shots.

I do prefer a Bullet that would be considered a Rapid Expander when used up-close for the L-o-n-g distance shots. By the time they get to the Deer, they have slowed enough that they are not nearly as fragile and normally plow right on through to make a nice Exit.

We are sure blessed with a multitude of excellent Bullets today.

Hot Core, on another thread you had this to say:

quote:

Hot Core, when you say:

[QUOTE]
"I'd suggest common logic is working to Gecko's advantage. Once it triggers his internal switch, he should be OK."

I replied to that:

quote:

I think both me and my friend must agree, the longer barrel had no excessive pressure with the same load same bullet either and we know we are OK

Hot Core, on second thoughts, what then - if not pressure - caused the higher velocity in the longer barrel of my friend's rifle?

Your truck pushing story in answer to the above was shot down good and solid the moment you posted it

Now you come again with this totally ridiculous preference of yours -

quote:

I do prefer a Bullet that would be considered a Rapid Expander when used up-close for the L-o-n-g distance shots. By the time they get to the Deer, they have slowed enough that they are not nearly as fragile and normally plow right on through to make a nice Exit.

If your Deer suddenly jumps out of the woods 'up-close' that preferred bullet will rapidly expand, probably won't reach the vitals and end up as a total failure.
Nobody knows what would happen at medium distance, but at long distance it would be so much slower that it wouldn't expand at all, not yielding a large enough wound channel to kill the poor animal - another failure!

I would have thought that such a highly experienced guy than yourself would have rather used a bullet that reliably expands from a low to a high velocity and in doing so also brings the Deer successfully down, irrespective of usual realistic hunting distances

Seems to me your built-in switch dropped you just like your preferred funny bullet will do!

All rifles are different, these loads are 1 gr below MAX in my rifle (Remington 700 BDL, 22" barrel), they may well be way too hot in yours! So start 4 grains below and work up in 1/2 grain increments.

270 Win. Remington cases once fired, neck sized only, Remington 91/2 M (Magnum primers)

130g Nosler Partition 61g H4831 3150 fps (excellent antelope, deer load) many animals killed all 1 shot kills, anchored the game.

150g Nosler Partition 59g Norma MRP 3020 fps (elk, bear load) none ran more than 30 yards. 12 elk killed, 9 bears


Regards,
Chuck

If you are getting 3300 fps with a .300 Win mag and 180 gr. bullets you are loading to a level I never want to achieve.

Top performer
.300 Win mag
180 Sierra BTSP
WW fireformed cases
Federal GM 215 primers
72.0 gr. IMR 4350
3090 fps
26 " barrel Remington Sender0

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I'd be interesting in knowing your top performing load for hunting big game - especially at long range. Others might be interested as well. Mine are as follows:

257 Roberts AI - 60 grs. MRP-2, 110 gr. Accubond, 3410 fps, 26" barrel.

25-06 AI - 62 grs. Re25, 115 gr NBT, 3400 fps, 26" barrel.

280 AI - 67 grs. Re25, 150 gr. NPT, 3225 fps, 26" barrel.

30-06 AI - 69 grs. MRP, 165 gr. Accubond, 3200 fps, 26.5" barrel.

300 WM - 83 gr. Re25, 180 gr. Accubond, 3300 fps, 26.5" barrel.

375 H&H AI - 94 grs. MRP, 300 gr. SGK, 2933 fps, 26.5" barrel.

All max and accurate with at least 5 reloads per case.

7mm Rem. Mag., 70 grains IMR 7828, 175-grain Nosler Partition MV 3070 FPS

416 Rigby, 400-grain Barnes TSX, 95 grains IMR 4350

.45/70, (Ruger No. 1) 400 grain Barnes Original semispitzer, 60 grains RE 7, MV 2270 FPS (HOT!!!)

Likewise. All MAX and accurate, at least 5 reloads per case.

I too like velocity, BUT value accuracy over velocity. In addition, I prefer bullets with adequate sectional density at the expense of extra velocity.

My "longrange" rifle is a Ruger #1 in 7mmDakota. The load of choice is 160grNP o/ 72grRL22 or 73grIMR7828 for 3250fps & it's subMAO. Fortunately, the longest game I have taken w/ it is about 130yds (one reason I load the NP even for longer ranges).

Hey Gecko, If you are determind to make yourself look like a Fool, I'll be more than glad to do that based on actual first-hand experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Gecko:
...If your Deer suddenly jumps out of the woods 'up-close' that preferred bullet will rapidly expand, probably won't reach the vitals and end up as a total failure.

Spoken like a true Fool.

A B-Tip of the original, 1st Generation, was the most Fragile of all they have made. But..., those 1st Generation B-Tips ALWAYS did fine at Magnum Impact Velocities when placed into the Ribs behind a shoulder. Once they got inside, they did open up at a very rapid rate and often did not make an Exit. But they Killed (like a guy who posts here once said), "Like the Deer swallowed a hand grenade."

So, you are a complete and total Fool there.

quote:

Gecko continuing to make himself out a Fool:
Nobody knows what would happen at medium distance,

Wrong AGAIN or AS USUAL! If the medium distance happens to be 200yds-450yds. Staying with the most Fragile 1st Generation B-Tip(since it is the Worst Case Example) they did fine through "One Shoulder" or directly into the Chest. Most of the time I got Exits on Shoulder-to-Ribs or Ribs-to-Shoulder shots, but of course that is speaking from actual first-hand experience and not some Fool notion you dreamed up.

So, you are a complete and total Fool there - again.

quote:

And Gecko shows he has ZERO knowledge about Long Distance Killing with:
but at long distance it would be so much slower that it wouldn't expand at all, not yielding a large enough wound channel to kill the poor animal - another failure!

WRONG-O, for the 3rd consecutive time. You really have ZERO knowledge about Bullet performance "On-Game". But, you are fun to laugh at.

quote:

Gecko:
I would have thought

Naw, not buying that either.

quote:

Gecko finally gets one in the Plus column after chopping up his comment:
...a highly experienced guy (EDIT TO CORRECT:than "like") yourself would have rather used a bullet that reliably expands from a low to a high velocity and in doing so also brings the Deer successfully down, irrespective of usual realistic hunting distances

Yup, that's what happened.

7-08.....42.5 grns Varget with 140 grn Sierra Game King.....all deer shot where very dead.

The only first-hand experience you had, Hot Core, is this total blunder which you have been side-stepping all the way since you have posted it:

quote:

Your truck pushing story in answer -- --- ----- was shot down good and solid the moment you posted it

Illustrating exactly what a huge BS fool you are with that blunder, nobody can be blamed for not believing anything else that you say or ever had said on this forum.

BTW, you have never even tried to answer this question either:

quote:

Hot Core, on second thoughts, what then - if not pressure - caused the higher velocity in the longer barrel of my friend's rifle?

Seems to me your built-in switch dropped you once again as usual.

Hot Core, I agree with your comments regarding the NBT. I've used NBTs on all sizes of North American big game with many one shot, humane kills. This includes many elk and caribou. I like the 30 caliber 180 NBT for the larger species, and they have been deadly at all ranges. Any deviations from these optimal results were the result of bad shooting on my part - that is, I didn't hit the boiler room. When one misses the vital area, the animals run and can be lost no matter what bullet you are using.

PS. Regarding the vitriolic posts with or by Gecko, I'm clicking the "Hide Post" option. I know you understand.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:...PS. Regarding the vitriolic posts with or by Gecko, I'm clicking the "Hide Post" option. I know you understand.

That is what I really need to do to.

Completely agree with the rest of your post as well.

quote:

top performing loads for hunting big game?

.300 H&H.....200 grain Swift A-Frame....66 grains H-4350.....2,900'/sec

.30-06.....180 grain A-Frame.....62 grains Rl-22... 2,800'/sec

06 24 inch barrel
200 gn NOSLER PART 59 gns of NORMA MRP 2720
180 gn NOSLER PART 61 gns of NORMA MRP 2850
i feel the 200 gn nosler is a really under estimated proj and weight in the 06, thats why im taking this load to Zimbabwae with me this year for every thing im going to hunt, will report back on its performance
Daniel

M98, I would suggest that you'd get even better performance with Re25 and still stay within 65,000 psi. Have you tried the 200 gr. Accubond? Folks are reporting fantastic performance in Africa with Accubond bullets, even for Cape buffalo. Accubonds tend to be more accurate and have higher BCs than the partitions.

Also, I suggest looking up GSSPs posts. He's using H1000 with 200 gr. partitions and getting over 2800 fps.

With 180 gr. bullets, GSSP and I are getting 3050 fps and more with 69-70 grs. of Re25 with the very mildly improved '06 AI and a 26" barrel. Cases reload 5 or more times.

Regards, AIU

I couldnt tell the difference in performance on deer with ballistic tips and accubonds. only up to deer sized game though and at all ranges and up to and over 3000fps connection velocity.


top performing loads? probably my 280 ackleys load. not as high velocity as yours but im only using 59grs of N560.

AIU...


The 30-06 Ackley Improved is made by firing the standard 30-06 in the Improved chamber. Headspace is the same, but the Improved case has a more abrupt shoulder, less body taper and a larger shoulder diameter. The most popular version was developed by P.O. Ackley in 1944, but there are other versions as experiments og back to 1940 or even earlier. This has always been a controversial cartridge with its detractors claiming it was not as good as the standard '06, and it defenders claiming it was better than the 300 H&H Magnum. Actual chronograph tests have proven it to be definitely superior to the standard 30-06 cartridge with slow burning powders, but not with medium to fast burning powders. The 30-06 Ackley Improved is one of the most popular and widely used of the Improved breed. With the proper powder, it will add a little over 100 fps muzzle velocity to any bullet weight, as opposed to the standard factory loaded cartridge.

This text is based on information from “Cartridges of the Worldâ€, Hodgdon reloading manual, the cartridge designer and/or own resources.


A max load velocity for the 165gr bullet is in the 2850fps range. Therefore you would expect max for that Ackley "so-called" Improved would be around 2950-3000.

You claim 3200. Am I reading that right?

Demonical,

Both the standard 06 and 06 AI are underloaded, as are most rounds. With modern slow burning powders like MRP its amazing what you can do to improve performance of many rounds. Much of the published literature is very conservative for legal liability reasons, but with a well-made modern bolt action rifle, one can run the PSIs up to 65,000 and get spectacular performance.

If you really want to learn about internal ballistics and you're adept with personal computers, purchase of copy of QUICK LOAD from NECCO - it's worth every penny. This program will tell you wich powder is optimal for which bullet in your selected round and barrel length. It covers them all, and I've found it to be quite accurate, especially for the 06.

In regards to the O6 (std or AI) MRP and the 165 gr bullet is a match made in heaven. For the 06 AI a beautiful marriage is made between Reloader 25 and the 180 gr. bullet - I'm getting up to 3100 fps with good primer pocket life and a 26" barrel.

A knowlegable reloader, willing to optimally match modern components, can surpass past performance with safety using modern bolt action rifles.

Finally, one of the main reason I started this thread was to see what current reloaders are taking advantage of - some are stuck in the past.

Regards, AIU

AIU, what action are your rifles based on?

Curious Canadian...


FWIW I have never understood the pursuit of extreme velocity. I have also been perpetually baffled by the Ackley Improved. I do not see the need.
My hunting philosophy has always to get as close as possible. Point-blank is preferred. I have shot a few animals at 300 yards, cuz that is the only shot I had.
I believe in high sectional density bullets for caliber, pushed at moderate to high velocity.
I am also a fan of the good old standard bullets and cartridges. I find that at the proper velocities they kill stuff as dead as dead can be.


I am alternatively fascinated, intrigued, appalled and baffled by velocity nuts.


Cheers, Demo.

Well for me shooting game animals is nothing to be taken lightly so my longest shots ever on game animals are 400 yards on an Antelope (22-250) and 425 yards on a bull elk (30/06).
My tried and true elk load that has reliably taken elk from 35 yards to 425 yards is
30/06
56 grains IMR-4350
WW cases
CCI primers
180 grain Sierra Spitzer Boat Tails
Speed unknown as I've never chronographed it.
At 425 yards I shot a bull broadside on the point of the shoulder, bullet exited about the size of a golf ball maybe larger and the bull dropped instantly. At that moment I decided that the rifle, caliber, bullet, load combination was perfect for me and my hunting. I don't need to hunt elk with a 300 or 338 mag with that kind of performance as I will never shoot an elk any further than that as it is the end of my comfort zone for elk regardless of the caliber or situation. In that circumstance the wind was still,the elk was still and there was no chance to get closer and I had a steady prone rest over a log and backpack. If any one of those things were different I would not take that shot.
My other "long range load" is
22/250
38 grains H380
WW cases
CCI primers
53 grain TSX
Speed is unknown as I've never chronographed the load.

For both of my rifles I talked about I build a ballistic chart by shooting them at the distances I will be hunting with them, therefore I've never chronied these accurate loads, just shot them at the distances I would hunt with them.

Demonical, I use Rem 700 and Win M70 actions with after market barrels (mostly Krieger), which have been trued-up and fitted by a bench-rest rifle gunsmith. Regards, AIU

Interesting stuff guys.

quote:

Finally, one of the main reason I started this thread was to see what current reloaders are taking advantage of - some are stuck in the past.

Not so. Some of us have different interests and passed the high velocity part a long time ago.
Be careful not to get in a rut. 25/20s are too.
It is not about old or modern. It is about what you enjoy.

BTW Ackley has been dead a while...

Well, for my .06, the latest and greatest are as follows:

185 VLD with Varget
168 TTSX with Re19
180 Accubond with H4350

As far as being 'stuck in the past' well, when I went up to my 2 deader'n'hell black bears last week and asked them if they gave a shit about velocity, I didn't get any response. They just laid there, lifeless.

I must have done something right.

Doc how big were the bears?


This bear is approx 7' and 400 lbs. I passed him up last Wednesday, distance 30 yards. Looking for a bigger bear.


I shot this 7' 400+ bear 2 years ago. The shot was stepped off at 26 paces...



Edit:
I should mention that I was using a beat up M-700 in .338WM, with 225gr Nosler Partions loaded with 67.5grs IMR-4350 to 2800fps MV.


I can't give the other loads I have built. Do not have my data sheet here.

They were small. I saw only one bear that would meet or exceed the 7 foot mark during the hunt. Saw him at 11am on day one and since he saw us in the truck, and slowly walked off behind a hill, my guide did not want to get out and pursue him. I wanted to as I felt we'd have a good chance at watching him walking away, but the guide insisted we'd see him again. Never did.

I shot a 6.5 and a 6 footer. Works out alright as all 3 of my kids want their own rugs for their bedrooms.

Very nice Bear demonical!
Very nice.
Did you measure his skull?

Snellstrom that boars skull went 20-1/2" green score, after the taxidermist over-boiled it and shrunk it, it still went 19-3/4".

Oh yeah, I shot that boar with the .338WM. One shot at 26 paces, a 225gr Nosler Partition.

Hunting Loads:
.270Win Remington M-700 Sendero.
140gr Nosler BT H-4831SC 59grs, Avg 3019fps MV. Very accurate. 1" 5-shot group.


.30-06 Remington M-700.
165gr Hornady BTSP IMR-4350 58grs, Avg 2866fps MV. It will also do 1" 5-shot group.


.300H&H Remington M-700 1983 Classic.
200gr Nosler Accubond IMR-4350 63.5grs, Avg 2708fps MV. Another 1" 5-shot group.


8x57 Remington M-700 2004 Classic.
200gr Nosler Accubond H-414 53grs, Avg 2645fps MV.
220gr Sierra GameKing H-414 46grs, Avg 2200fps MV.
Have not fired test groups with either load since glass-bedding the action recently. It was very poor before that though, like 4" for 5-shots.

.338WM Remington M-700.
225gr Nosler Partition IMR-4350 67grs, Avg 2800 fps MV. 1.3" 5-shots.
250gr Nosler Part or Hornady IL IMR-4350 67.5grs, Avg 2645fps MV. 3" 5-shot group.

.405Win M-1895 Miroku Winchester.
300gr Hornady FN H-4895 53.5grs, Avg 2225fps MV.
No groups shot.

.416RM ZKK-602.
400gr Hornady RN IL/IB RL-15 76.5grs 2374fps MV.
5" 5-shot group.

.458 Lott CZ-550.
500gr Hornady RN IB H-335 75.5grs 2235fps MV.
3-1/2" 5-shot groupd off the bags with iron sights (100 yards).

.45-70 Gov't Marlin M-1895GS.
350gr Hornady FN H-4198 49grs 2023fps MV.
400gr Hawk FN .050 Jacket H-4895 52grs 1695fps MV.
I also load the 405gr Remington FN and have used the 400gr Speer FN with the same 52.5grs of H-4895.

I have a Marlin M-1895XLR with i fire the same loads in but have done almost no range work or Chrony work with. The only thing I really remember abotu that is that I found there to be very little difference in muzzle velocity, in spite of the longer barrel.


FWIW I only shoot 5-shot groups and always at 100 yards (that's all our range has). Every group I work up and test has to be consistent for 5 shots or I tweak it.
Another tidbit; I never f*ck with C.O.L. but use only factory specs, since I am a hunter and not a target shooter. I want stuff that works trouble free every time.
Every cartridge is always full-length re-sized.

I too am a hunter and always full length resize for that "fits every time feeling".
I've had people ask me why I full length resize all my hunting loads and no matter how I explain they don't get it. I also keep my rifles simple and functional, no bells, whistles and widgets on my scopes cuz I don't want something stupid to spoil a hunt. I also keep most of my rifles set up the same so there is no learning curve, I can adjust my scope with out ever having to look at it and I always know where my safety is etc.
Hijacking nearly complete!

I full length resize my brass as well, but only a half or one thousandth of an inch. I found that bumping the shoulders back 5+ thou. decreased the consistency of my loads. Setting up the resizer die properly has made quite a difference for me over the last 15 years.

Never had any feeding problems the way I've been doing it.

My loads:
.308 45.5 Re15, 150BT don't know vel. less than 1"
6.5-06AI 52.5 AA4350 120BT 3000fps 1/2"
264WM 60.0 IMR4831 125NPT or 129 Hornady don't know vel. 3/4"
30-06 57.5 AA4350 165 Sie 165HPBT Gameking don't know vel. 3/4" in my Browning Highwall.

Can't wait for my 7x57 to get finished.