The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading neck resizing.. what do I need?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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All of my rifles to date have been gas guns so I've always FL resized. Got my first bolt gun (Remington 700 .308 stainless) and some fire formed brass from the rifle so I want to get into neck resizing only. Does a neck resizing die also de-cap the brass? What will I need in addition to what I already have? Thanks in advance. Joe | ||
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Yes it will decap as well.Hornady has some great cal. non specific dies(i.e. .30,6.5,7mm,etc.)Just buy the .30 cal. die + a tin of powdered graphite,you only need to dip the neck.Feel free to P.M. me with questions if you like. | |||
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Thanks Norman. One thing I'm looking forward to is the ease with which I will be able to neck size/decap my 308s. I have 2 presses, a Lee Loadmaster and an RCBS Jr something or other. Even though I rarely use the progressive to reload .308, I always have to use the Lee to FL resize the cases as the handle and leverage on the RCBS makes FL resizing difficult. I would prefer to use the RCBS for everything except pistol and .223 bulk reloading since it is better for a right handed reloader IMHO. I will have to segregate my brass now, though since the FNAR need FL resizing and the bolt gun will "own" the brass it fires. Joe | |||
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Not wanting to derail an excursion into another facet of reloading but you might want to see how the F/L resized stuff shoots in your rifle before buying what may be un-needed "stuff". Also, many prefet to use what is now calle "partial full length" resizing. You can use a F/L die and it works well for me. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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That is the first step! You need to get the hornady case length & head space tool that you attach to a pair of calipers. The various busing are very useful for both case length & shoulder set back control. By partial resizing & using the hornady tool, you will get perfect fir for your rifle. Hornady case legth gauge - see this. http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/977259.htm There is even be a video on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-UrMTyJ1_E
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Beeman, FL resized brass is tight in the chamber, takes a little shove of the bolt to get it to chamber. I thought the point of neck only resizing is to get more life out of the brass as well as having the cartridge fit the chamber better so the round is better centered? Naki, Thanks I'll check it out. Joe | |||
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I have had no problem chambering the reloads in my FNAR. Next time I FL resize I can run the die a little tigher against the shell plate. If the cases are still a little long I can face a few thou off the end of the die. Joe | |||
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Why do folks always assume it's the equipment that's at fault and not the operator or that things aren't set-up right. I've been reloading for 50 years for a myriad of cartridges and have never had to alter a die nor a shell holder. My method for partial full length resizing is to set the die up for a strong full length resize. Then I make a fender washer or shim about the thickness of a dime. The hole in the middle is big enough to fit around the threaded portion of the die. When I get ready to resize my 1x brass, I put the washer around the die and thread it into the press. Then I resize the brass. After several reloadings the case will develope a small doughnut on the outside of the neck at the junction of the shoulder and the neck. This does no harm and if anything it helps align the bullet with the bore. When the brass becomes hard to chamber or if I am loading up some hunting ammo, I remove the washer and full length resize the brass. No thingies to buy or over the top measuring. And it works like a charm. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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"Next time I FL resize I can run the die a little tigher against the shell plate." What part of that statement suggested that I know the equipment is at fault? I assumed that press frame flex is causing the cases to run a little long. I followed that with a statement that I will now elaborate on; that if I cannot get the cases short enough once I've eliminated the possiblility of frame flex, only then would I determine that the die is too long. Decades in the machine shop, mold shop, and design studo has provided me with a strong understanding of mechanics and metallurgy so I am full well capable of making this determination on my own. I have a #4s Lee shell plate for my progressive press that approxiamately 1/3 of the .380 brass I have will not fit in. The flange thickness on brass with one particular headstamp (hundreds of cases) is right at the upper limit of the specification (as verified by a flange micrometer) and Lee has offered to open up the slots in the shell plate. I've only been reloading for a year and already I've encountered equipment that needs to be reworked so I guess I'm ahead of the curve, huh? Joe | |||
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Well, I've only been reloading for 48 years, so my advice is obviously from something of a greenhorn, but . . . I've seen plenty of incompatibilities between FL dies and rifle chambers. PLENTY. That doesn't mean that the equipment is at fault, just that the equipment doesn't match the rifle. It is not at all uncommon to find a FL die which, when a case, even one fired in the same rifle, is run into it until the shell holder firmly bumps the die, that the case will NOT re-enter the rifle's chamber. The two just ain't shaped the same! Now, the very best, very cleanest, and very most economical way to neck size brass is to use the Lee Collet die. There are a few tricks to setting up the Collet die. You sometimes need to clean up the rough machining, and for some cartridges you'll need to hone .001-.002" off of the mandrel to get the appropriate neck tension. The die will also require some precise adjustment to achieve just the right amount of "squeeze" on the neck. But these are simple steps which don't take long. Once properly set, the Collet die uses no messy lubricants and turns out cases which are accurately neck-sized as well as more concentric than most dies will produce. I use the Lee Collet dies exclusively for all of my bolt guns. I've even modified Collet dies to work with calibers which Lee does not offer. | |||
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Stone, I ordered a Lee Collet Die the same night I started the thread. Thanks for weighing in. Joe | |||
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I don't question that there are minor differences between dies and chambers. HOWEVER, I'm gonna throw the bullshit flag on a case that is fired in a rifle, CORRECTLY run through a F/L die, and then won't fit into the same chamber it came out of. Except for the possibility of squeezing the shoulder forward because of a INCORRECTLY set up die, how is the die gonna make the case BIGGER???? Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Neck sizing does not only prolong the life of a case, but also ensure better accuracy when shot in the same rifle. You can also Neck Size in you ordinary Full Length Die. You just size up to a few thousands of an inch short of the shoulder. People say it also couch the case better than a Neck Size Die and ensure better allignment with the Die. | |||
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I am going to jump in here. Can you say Bingo...Ding Ding...Winner. As wasbeeman said. If the case came out of that gun then it will go back in. Unless you/your setup make it bigger. And how is a properly setup die going to do this? Neck expander pulling the shoulder forward while pulling thru the caseneck is most likely cause. muck | |||
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One thing about LEE collet dies. There can arise a situation where the case isn't straight in the die and will result with a case neck not concentric with the body. Don't think for one second that when the collet squeezes the neck against the mandrel that it's always straight. If you want to find out of you collet die sizes straight chuck your case neck in a lathe (you'll have to have a solid dowel inside the case neck that fits precisely so you don't collapse the neck) and spin it and you'll see how straight everything is. Use a dial indicator. | |||
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If a Full length sized case chambers with a bit of resistance then pushing the shoulder forward due to a misadjusted die is a distinct possibility, however the case neck may also be too long. Hard chambering cases are trying to tell you something and they should not be ignored till the reason is found, be it the die or case neck or very tight chamber, or whatever. Jerry Liles | |||
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Read before you write, gentlemen. I specified the circumstance under which this phenomenon can occur, but you ignored it and launched off into "if the die is properly set up". I said nothing about the propriety of the die set-up (which is typically not setting the die to bump the shellholder). If a chamber is a bit narrow at the shoulders and a FL die is both wide at that point and "short" (to the datum point), then the bump of the shoulder can spread the shoulder diameter to exceed that of the chamber -- and the case will not re-enter said chamber. I've seen numerous examples of incompatible FL dies and chambers. The reloader finds that a partially sized case re-enters only with resistance on the bolt handle and in an attempt to relieve this resistance will screw the FL die down tighter, resulting in a case on which the bolt will not close at all. The more frequent instance, however, of chamber-die incompatibility is when the die is somewhat smaller than the chamber, making it impossible to do a partial sizing without squeezing the shoulders excessively. The extra brass has to go somewhere, so the shoulder is pushed slightly forward. Hang around a few more years and mess with a few more rifles and you'll discover these kinds of issues without having to be tutored via the web. | |||
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A die that you think that is set up right and is NOT will cause this. A FL die set .004 or .005 too shallow will do exactly this. When it squeezes the case body down in diameter the case body is like a balloon and expands forward (upward). When the die is set shallow the case shoulder moves and the resized case does not want to chamber. | |||
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 Why don't we grasp at straws and find a few more once in a lifetime circumstances that will justify this bullshit. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Apparently, due to your limited experience you've never run across this phenomenon. Not only have I seen it a number of times, but my life is not yet over and I expect to run across it again. Hurling epithets and being dismissive of the phenomenon as "once in a lifetime" provides us some insight into your character. Instead of being pleased to acquire some information you did not previously have through the experience of others you seem to be miffed at your own uninformed state. | |||
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You're a joke. I've probably reloaded more ammo than you've shot. So when you start leaning on your "vast" knowledge, you might want to consider that this ain't my first rodeo and my bullshit detector is working full time. Perhaps if you knew as much as you think you do, you wouldn't be having the problems that you say are commonplace when you're reloading. BTW, I wasn't hurling epithets, I was merely pointing out that you're full of shit. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I have experienced the same phenomenon that Stonecreek has alluded to. I too have a chamber that will not neck size only by backing out the FL die. Still have it. From that experience, I started to purchase the deluxe die sets from redding, that include a neck only sizer so I don't have to concern myself about it. | |||
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I think someone should make a movie about a couple of old cagers bickering back and forth aaaand maybe call it; "Grumpy Old Men"?  By the way Stonecreek, I've had the same experiences that you have mentioned with the case body swelling or lengthening and then not chambering easily. But ONLY when partial-length resizing or when I do not "cam" the press handle over on my (RCBS Jr.) Press against the F-L die while full-length resizing. I have also had this occur when using a different brand and/or vintage shell holder from brand/vintage F-L die.....which results in not pushing the case face in far enough for that particular die WHEN full-length resizing. The die makers are pretty good at holding the SAAMI specs. Of the cartridge, But they vary the length from the shoulder to the bottom of the F-L die and then make up the difference with the shell holder face (or vice versa) during that manufacturing run... AKA "production run" or "lot". I have found that to be true with RCBS and Lee. Not so much with Redding. Never tried any other brand. (Never needed to.) Just my 32 years of "in-experience" in reloading. Back to the original post....which was what? Oh yeah...neck sizing. Depending on what cartridge you intend to reload, you will need either the Lee collet die (my preference) or a good neck sizing die (Redding) and a good bench mounted press, especially if you choose the Lee collet dies, and the rifle (chamber) you want to load for. Follow the owners manual. Not much more different than before I would think. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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Strictly for what it's worth, my son has a set of Lyman dies for his 9.3x62 Mauser ('98 action). There was no way we could get the sizer die to mark a blackened shoulder even slightly, resulting in very stiff chambering after a few reloads. I did actually 'face' the die by just a few thou' and it hasn't skipped a beat since. The exception to the rule? Sure. Does it happen? Hell, yes! Flame away  | |||
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When partial full lenght sizing this happens just a few thousanths before the die die is set perfectly. PFL is the way to go if you are looking for continuous accuracy and max case life. Sizing the neck and bumping the shoulder back about 2 thousandths. Neck sizing is temporary....you shott the cases a few times then they get tight and you full lenght and start over. PFL is the same every time after fire forming. . . | |||
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How many readers are aware that with shoulder fired match rifles, full length sizing wherein the rimless bottleneck fired case shoulder's set back 1 or 2 thousandths has been used to win the matches and set the records since the 1950's? More recently, most benchresters have moved from neck only to full length sizing, not to make their smallest groups smaller, but to make their largest groups smaller; their agg scores/groups are better. If one does the measurements, they'll see that full length sized rimless bottleneck cases fit the chamber with better bullet alingment to the bore when they're fired than neck only ones. Doesn't matter how much clearance there is between the case body and neck to the chamber body and neck. Full length sizing dies with bushings the right diameter for your case necks have become the standard for folks who know what's happening. Sierra Bullets' been using them for years. Some folks think a standard full length sizing die with its neck lapped out to the right diameter's better than a bushing die. Bart B. | |||
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This has not been widely reported however I bumbled on to this on my own and it has been reinforced by consistent use of the Stony Point/Hornady gauge. I used the same loads, bullets, primers et al but changed my die settings slightly. Using this tool I also noticed that less lube on the case sized it less due to increased friction. More lube sized it more due to less friction. Even the speed of sizing varied the sizing. A faster stroke with no dwell at the top of the stroke caused some variation. A slower stroke with a second or two dwell at the top of the stroke gave the brass time to flow and take a set resulting in less variation to almost no detectable variation. Then I tried slow strokes with dwell at the top, slight retraction of the case and turning it about 1/2 turn. Then I slow stroked and let it dwell again. This resulted in brass sized from head to shoulder datum that I could not measure ANY variation in. Once I figured this out I tried it in my bolt guns with the die setting such that I could feel the only slightest drag when closing a stripped bolt. The bolt would actually close on ammo .002 longer but with moderate drag. Cases sized .001 to .002 shorter had no drag. All of this exercise was originally designed to minimize the working of the brass and make it last longer. This was on a project where I had to expend a lot of labor making brass for an obscure military round. Yeah the brass lasted longer as in almost forever. But I was surprised the old rifle also shot much, much better. This sizing method was then used on everything else that I shot that has a bottle neck case. As a rule every rifle shot much better- Just from sizing the case so that it has almost a perfect fit. | |||
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Couldn't help but laugh...... ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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There is only one iron clad way to know 100% that your shoulder is "bumped" back....and by how much You have to measure your sized brass ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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That assumes that the die and the chamber are matched to one another. "Full length sizing" with a commercial die for a commercial sporter's chamber will usually result in brass that is reduced from the fired size a great deal more than any benchrest shooter would desire or tolerate.
Depending on which cartridge and how much pressure a load generates, it is possible to neck size-only for many reloadings and never run into a tight chambering problem. Cases repeatedly loaded to "maximum-ish" pressures will begin to resist freely re-entering the chamber; softer cases will do this quicker than harder ones due to the greater springback of harder brass. But what you say is true if pressures are fairly high or brass is on the soft side. | |||
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