I was at the range today and used a new Prochrono. today for the first time and was shocked to see the velocity of my loads. I was using a ruger SBH 7.5" bbl. and from 21.5 to 22.6gr. of W296. The bullets are hard cast 300gr. .430"(above 20BHN) and I could not get any good groups. Same with 240gr. hard cast LFN bullet and 22/2400 or 22 - 24.5 W296. The velocities ranged from 1365 - 1465 depending on load for the 300gr. and 1425 -1500 for the 240 gr.

Do you think the bullets are traveling too fast and stripping in the rifling? They do NOT have a gas check. Best group was 2" at 25 yds. but really opened at 50 and off the target at 100.

All loads are individually weighed and trickled up. I am using WLP primers for all 2400 loads and CCI 350 for W296 loads for the 300gr.

Could use some help. Wayne

Have you slugged the bore? My hard cast bullets for my SBH have to be sized to .431.

i know if they are really hard they can take velocity, but i always limit cast bullets to less that 1100

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Do you think the bullets are traveling too fast and stripping in the rifling

Was the barrel leaded up when you got done? If it was then you have your answer.

I would first try adding a gas check. I would think that would solve your problem.

Could be a couple of things.

The first is the most obvious. What kind of metal fouling does your cast projectile ammo leave in the bore? If the the bullets mike 0.430 and leave a lot of leading ... you may need a gas checked design.

With 2" groups at 25 yards, one can only expect 4" at 50 and so on. If your not seeing that ... your level of skill at longer ranges may be contributing to the problem. Fifty yard shots with an unscoped handgun are not easy. Hundred yard shots are a lot like throwing rocks without a very practiced hand at the wheel. At longer ranges the quality of the trigger is very, very important.

The inherent accuracy of the load at that range is hard to determine without a Ransom rest.

I've always preferred H-110/296 for 41 and 44 Rem Mag as it is cleaner burning than 2400. Have had no problems with cast bullets at range with those calibers but it has taken many years. My longest pistol WTD kill was at 124 yards.

That seems a bit too fast to do witout gas check ! Do any of the bullet holes show key holeing ,or oval holes ??

mstarling: I used W296 in both the 300gr. and 240 gr. as well as tried 2400. I have a 2X scope on the handgun and I am quite a good shooter - especially with a pistol and slow fire.

MikeN: I have never used a gas check. Is this something you buy already installed or do you buy them in bulk at put them on yourself? Where do you get them?

swheeler: There was leading in the barrel - I don't know if you would call it excessive - more like smears rather than clumps. I cleaned the barrel after a while with a bore snake and shot some more.

eddieharren: I have not slugged the bore. I might try a .431 bullet as you suggested worked in your RSBH. Where do you buy them? Idahoshooter showed me a site and gave me excellent info also at Oregon Trail Bullet Co. They have a 44 Cal. 300g TC .431 but the meplat is not very wide. I want it for hunting.

Wayne

mete: I did not notice any keyholing or oval holes. All the penetrations on the cardboard backed paper targets seemed round and well-defined.

Wayne

A 2x scope helps a lot.

Gas checks are little guilding metal cups that fit onto the base of the bullet. They are crush fit to the base during sizing. The bullet mold has to be made to provide the right shape to the base of the bullet for a gas check.

The purpose of a gas check is to protect the base of the bullet from being gas cut during acceleration down the bore.

If you're buying commercial bullets look for a gas checked projectile of the correct diameter.

Even if you're a pretty good shot, 100 yards is a challenge with a handgun. Try commercial jacketed ammo and shooting from a rest to see if the pistol is capable at that range with the current trigger. The SBH has an OK trigger from the factory that can be made better by a good pistol smith. The S&W triggers are usually better. I have an M57 Smith made in the early 60's whose trigger is simply amazing. Really helps at longer distances.

I would expect it will be necessary to tune a load for the revolver to get superb accuracy at 100 yards. I'd probably start at working at 50. My standard practice load for the 44 Mag is a 240 grain bullet cast in WW from an H&G 45 mold. It is lubed with Carnauba red and sized to .430" I use 23.6 gr of 296 and CCI 350 primers. Haven't chrono'd the load but expect the load is running over 1400 fps from a 7 1/2" SBH.

In the scoped SBH it holds a nice sub 1" group at 25 yards.

I can tell you that pistols that shoot 1" at 25 yards can shoot patterns at 100 even when shot from a rest. It is a very demanding thing to do well. A Ransom rest is REALLY handy for long range load testing as it helps eliminate shooter error. Is a shame they are so expensive.

A lot of them store bought things have bevel bases--JUNK!
The Ransom rest is not a cure all either. I have seen worse groups from them then I get from Creedmore. I have gotten better groups from Creedmore then I have from sandbags too.
Hard lead is not going to help a poor boolit design either.
Trigger control is of the utmost importance even with a good boolit.

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Try commercial jacketed ammo and shooting from a rest to see if the pistol is capable at that range with the current trigger.

I have tried that before and they shoot really tight.

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A lot of them store bought things have bevel bases--JUNK!

I checked and the 240g. and 300g. .430 bullets do have a slight bevel at the base but it is only about 1 mm. What do you think of Laser Cast and Cast Performance GC bullets from Midway? Cast Performance is .430 dia. 300g. FN GC bullet @ $40.49 for 100.

Wayne

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Originally posted by swheeler:
...Was the barrel leaded up when you got done? ...

This was an excellent question. And the suggestion about Gas Checks "might" just help solve the problem, or it "might not". But, it is not a good idea to add a Brass Gas Check to a bullet which isn't designed for it.

However, you can use Cardboard Gas Checks and see if it will fix the problem. The Leading you are seeing might be Lead blowing off the Base. If it is, accuracy might indeed be impossible to get.

Making Cardboard Gas Checks

1. Take a Fired Case and remove the Spent Primer without Resizing the Case.
2. Drill out the Flash Hole to a larger diameter so a wire will fit through it.
3. Sharpen the Case Mouth with a Champfer/Deburr tool.
4. Place a thin piece of Cardboard on a wooden board and use the Sharpened Case as a cutter. Wham on the Case with a hammer to cut through the cardboard.
5. After cutting out 5, stick in the wire and push out the Cardboard Gas Checks.

The old Waxed Milk Cartons did great, but a cereal box or toothpaste box will also do. I've also used the Styrofoam meat trays, but prefer either Milk Cartons or Cardboard.

Load your Case as normal, but slip in a Cardboard Gas Check after the Powder and before Seating the Bullet. The Cardboard Gas Check will be a snug fit inside the Resized Case.
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If it helps, good for you. If it doesn't, then the accuracy issue is something else.

Best of luck to you.

Cast performance makes great boolits. I have tested a pile of bevel base boolits with crummy accuracy. I have a Lee .357 mold here that belongs to a friend and it was a bevel base. I removed the bevel from the mold and groups were cut in half.
I also shoot PB and GC boolits and I sure do not see any difference.
I got a test pack of Laser cast boolits and did not find them as good as my own cast boolits. I don't like them.

I make my own.

Hot Core:

Taking your advice and made up some cardboard GC uing the technique you described. Also made up about 3 using the plastic lid from coffee cans as another shooter on this site recommended. Will see how they shoot.

Also, I read where one shooter would resize his 44 mag cases only down to where the base of the bullet would end (Partial Full-Length Resizing so to speak). I made up a bunch of those and regular Full Length Resized rounds for comparison.I am quite sure there is no space between the GC and the bullet base.

I used WLP primers instead of the CCI 350 this time. Any other suggestions welcomed. Wayne

Hey Wayne, Lead makes the very best revolver/pistol bullets when everything gets figured out and is working properly. But Lead is very tricky and a lot of the "experience" is dieing off.

There are all kinds of Leading issues from too Fast to too Slow, Alloy considerations, Sizing to be 0.001" Over the Land diameters, Chambers larger than the Land Diameters, Obturation or no obturation and on and on.

Change the Alloy or the Diameter and everything is back to the Starting Point.

I'm not saying that to discourage anyone, just stating that Lead is Tricky. But it is REALLY worth the effort. Once the Load is figured out and the Tricks handled, you can get excellent low friction velocity, 5-10x the barrel life, great accuracy, low Leading and wonderful On-Game performance for those of us who Hunt.

Stick with it. It might take awhile and a few different styles of Lead, but I do love it.

Best of luck with the Cardboard and Plastic Gas Checks.

Thanks Hot Core. I will keep you advised. Wayne