Loading for my 7mm-08. I usually use my stoney point for finding the rifling. But i loaned it out to another new reloader. So in a hurry to load some shells, I find this gun has a nice short throat. I tried the SAAMI COL of 2.8" but it won't chamber so I haven't done the split case method in years and years, so I figure why not. It used to work for me. I was shocked to find it much more consistent than I did before. I measured three bullets with a sized case I modified with a dremel and measured 2.748 for bullet 1, 2.7445" for bullet 2 and 2.748" for bullet 3. i did it three times for each bullet. All bullets were 140gr gamekings.

I figure if I load to 2.740" I should be safe from pressure spikes. But thinking 2.735" would be safe. How much more do you set your bullet back when using this method. No I didn't do the felt tip pen. I have tried that too many times with wrong results. Boy I miss my stoney. I am worried cause I know this method is like me jamming the bullet into the rifling with my stoney.

Some say knock it to 2.715" or .03 back from where it hit the rifling but thats alot.

First, establishing the best seating depth is the first thing one should do because it is probably the single most important and unchangeable variable you have. Second, this should not be done with a full-house load, but a good safe middle of the road loading. Pressure, per se, should not be an issue in this experiment.

Once you find your optimum seating depth, you can start pressure testing.

I'd start with your figures with 2.74 because this would put you approximately 5/1000th off. I'd then start seating it deeper in 2/1000th increments (2.738, 2.736, etc) until I found a sweet spot. If I didn't find one by 2.730, I'd start going out by 2/1000th, until I got to the lands/groves. There are rifles that like it that way.

Personally, I like the split case method better that the Stoney Point method because SP is measuring the distance from the bolt face to the lands/groves without relation to the shoulder, which is where the SP tool measures from as I understand its function. Kudude

Rather than split a case, I find that using a once fired case and sizing the neck just enough to hold the bullet w/proper tension works very well. Just ease the case into sizing die and try the bullet, repeat until tension is correct for friction fit.

Regards,
hm

Thanks, I think I am going to start out at 2.735" to be on the safe side. Well see. Going to get my stoney back soon. I will post the differences I see.

If it's possible to stuff up I'll find a way, so any method of using the rifeing to push a bullet into a case worries me.
When using a rod down the barrel method, holding
a bullet in from the chamber end, I've noticed a strong tendency for the bullet to stick in the rifleing probably more stronger than it does
in a case neck, so on extraction it may give a much longer OAL than is the case.
Sorta, easy in easy out problem in the case neck.
John L.

quote:

I've noticed a strong tendency for the bullet to stick in the rifleing probably more stronger than it does
in a case neck, so on extraction it may give a much longer OAL than is the case.

JAL:
Coloring the side of the bullet w/felt tip pen is good insurance to avoid this problem. If the bullet slips in case on extraction, case neck will leave a telltale mark.
Regards,
hm

I still have all my split cases but use them for setting seating dies now. I bought the sinclair tool that uses a case from my chamber and a bullet and it is a 3 minute operation which will repeat every time. I keep the same bullet I used to set my dies and get the OAL, in the die box to keep everything the same.

quote:

Coloring the side of the bullet w/felt tip pen is good insurance to avoid this problem. If the bullet slips in case on extraction, case neck will leave a telltale mark.
Regards,
hm

Brilliant, thanks. I wish I could work and think at the same time.
John L.

I used to use various methodfs to establish OAL until someone posted the following method.

It is one of those things that makes one hit onesself on the head because it is so easy that you wonder why you didn't think of it sooner.



Close the bolt with the striker cocked.

Now, place a dowel or flat faced ramrod into the bore until it contacts the face of the bolt. (the end of the rod or dowel must be square and near bore size, with a solid, flat face) Mark the rod @ the muzzle with a fine line marker, be as presice as possible.

Now insert an example of the bullet you plan to use into the breech, push it into into the throat until it contacts the rifleling.

While keeping firm pressure on the bullet, again insert the rod and mark the end of the muzzle on the rod with a fine line marker. Again, be as presice as you can.

Measure the distance between marks with a caliper and you will have the OAL to the lands.

To be as presice as possible, measure from the muzzle side of both marks.

Wildcat, if you use a dowel, rather than using a pen to mark the dowel use a thin sharp blade (x-acto knife would be perfect). The blade will give you a more accurate line (it's a trick for when you hand cut dovetails or other finiky wood work). But thanks for the method I'll be giving it a try.

quote:

It is one of those things that makes one hit onesself on the head because it is so easy that you wonder why you didn't think of it sooner.
.

Um, what you've just measured, may be right, but only for that particular bullet. With some
Sierra Match Hollow points I've measured up around 16 thou difference in their length.
If you use your measureing bullet to set your seating dies, which work off the curve of the nose area, meplat? You may have a usable measurement.
John L.

quote:

Wildcat, if you use a dowel, rather than using a pen to mark the dowel use a thin sharp blade (x-acto knife would be perfect). The blade will give you a more accurate line (it's a trick for when you hand cut dovetails or other finiky wood work). But thanks for the method I'll be giving it a try.

Goodness people spend the money and buy sinclairs tool or a stoney point. I can't believe this is accurate at all.

.[/QUOTE]

Um, what you've just measured, may be right, but only for that particular bullet. With some
Sierra Match Hollow points I've measured up around 16 thou difference in their length.
If you use your measureing bullet to set your seating dies, which work off the curve of the nose area, meplat? You may have a usable measurement.
John L.[/QUOTE]

Right on! Several years ago a relatively new competitor called me with "a problem with his loading press". It seems "the press" was not seating the bullets uniformly. After questioning him further, found that he was measuring overall length. I told him to measure three or four (unseated) bullets and he said, "Oh No!, I just spent three hours adjusting my die and getting all my loaded rounds the same length.

Regards,
hm

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:

quote:

Wildcat, if you use a dowel, rather than using a pen to mark the dowel use a thin sharp blade (x-acto knife would be perfect). The blade will give you a more accurate line (it's a trick for when you hand cut dovetails or other finiky wood work). But thanks for the method I'll be giving it a try.

Goodness people spend the money and buy sinclairs tool or a stoney point. I can't believe this is accurate at all.

Actually, it is far more accurate than the tools you mention.

The really nice thing about it is that since you have one(or both) of those tools, you can try it for yourself and see.

In addition, do it with a buddy after he watches you do both methods. Let him repeat what you did, and see which measurements happen to be the closest.

P.S. Please don't toss the "tools" toward the Southeast.

As JAL pointed out in a previous post, the overall length (base to point) of Sierra Match Kings varies considerably. I measured a dozen .308 cal. 180 gr. SMK’s and found a variance in OAL of .012†and, using a Stoney Point tool, found less than .0005†from base to the .300†point on the bullet ogive on the same small sample of bullets. For this reason, I am uncomfortable with any method using the bullet point as the basis for the measurement, unless the same bullet used to take the measurement would then be seated into a case and kept in the die box to set the die for all future loading of that particular brand/weight bullets. Any time the brand/weight/shape bullet is changed, another measurement must be taken and another die setting round made & saved.

I use a Stoney Point OAL tool but make custom cases for each rifle by sizing the neck of a once fired case just enough to hold the bullet w/proper tension. Just ease the case into sizing die and try the bullet, repeat until tension is correct for friction
fit. The bullet to be loaded is then slipped into case and pushed into rifling with the SP rod and rod locked. If bullet should slip out when tool removed, it is easily pushed back against the rod. The case/bullet is then removed from SP tool for a
precise measurement from base of case to the .300†point of the ogive of that particular bullet using the SP bullet comparator and the seating die adjusted to obtain that exact seating depth. All measurements are to the .300" point on bullet ogive which is more constant than the point.

The objective in measuring the distance to the lands in a rifle is to find the optimum “jump†for that rifle. The distance from the point on the ogive of the bullet in a loaded round which measures the same diameter as the bore (.300 for 308, 30-06, etc.) to the point at which lands begin would be the measurement we are searching for.

Another advantage of the Stoney Point method is that the measurement can be used to set your dies for ANY make/weight/shape of bullet.

One other point, remember, distance to lands changes as the throat wears, so if you shoot quite a bit, you should measure the throat from time to time, you may be surprised at how quickly it changes .

I have found the above method very accurate and repeatable,YMMV.

Regards,
hm