Looking for opinions as to acceptable accuracy for factory (off the shelf) hunting rifles used for hunting medium sized and large game. The ammo can be either handloads or factory. Let's limit the distance to 100 yds. from a bench so the conditions will be near ideal. I'm aware that the accuracy of any firearm will vary under real hunting conditions. (I'll admit to missed shots while hunting.)

I guess what I'm asking is the minimum acceptable accuracy of a factory hunting rifle using ideal conditions.

Under MOA or one inch at 100 yards has been my benchmark. I have it a custom .300 Win Mag based on a Model 70 by D'Arcy Echols. That rifle will print under a half inch with factory Federal 180gr Nosler Partitions off a bench.

Realistically, barring be able to buy an expensive custom rifle, look at what most real-life conditions will be. If you can put a three shot group into a six inch circle at 300 yards, then that's acceptable accuracy for deer-sized game. Translate that to 2 inches at 100 yards.

In a hunting situation where I could not bring the benchrest with me and I'm shooting a standard, scoped factory rifle that was not modified, I'd be happy with between 1-2.5 MOA at a 100 yards.

Okay, let's assume a 10" vital zone.

If you can place your shots in that area, regardless of the range, after taking into consideration the wind, the distance, the barometric pressure, the humidity, the movement of the animal, the movement of the shooter, and all other variables ... you have hunting accuracy.

Personally, I prefer less than 1" at 200 yards for 5 shots. That way I know that the firearm and the ammunition are doing their part. If it takes more than one shot or if it is a complete miss, it makes no difference wat the accuracy capability of the firearm is. It is the shooter at fault.

If I can't get my rifle to shoot better than 1 1/2" at 100 yards they get traded.....so far only one has had that distinction.....a 300 H&H in a M-70!!!!!

I'm fully happy with a real 1.5" group with hunting grade bullets in a big game rifle.

In the good old days, a writer would "wring out" a new rifle and if it shot 1.5" at 100, it was deemed to have excellent hunting accuracy.
If you're a box a year shooter, that's a great group. But if you're like most of us frothy-mouthed addicts, shooting 1.5-2' groups week after week can get booooooring.

quote:

I'm aware that the accuracy of any firearm will vary under real hunting conditions. (I'll admit to missed shots while hunting.)

This may be splitting hairs, but it is NOT the accuracy of the firearm that varies under hunting conditions! It is the ability of the shooter to effectively utilize that accuracy!

IMO, any rifle that will keep ALL its shots in an area 1/2 the size of the vitals of the game being pursued at the maximum range that a shot can conceivably be taken is accurate enough for hunting use under those conditions, assuming the criterion is the ability to reliably kill the game being sought! Most any old M94 in .30/30 Win. or SMLE will meet this test. However, most of us demand a lot better performance from our rifles, WHETHER SUCH PERFORMANCE IS ACTUALLY REQUIRED OR NOT!

2 inches all shots fired.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

IMO, any rifle that will keep ALL its shots in an area 1/2 the size of the vitals of the game being pursued at the maximum range that a shot can conceivably be taken is accurate enough for hunting use under those conditions, assuming the criterion is the ability to reliably kill the game being sought! Most any old M94 in .30/30 Win. or SMLE will meet this test. However, most of us demand a lot better performance from our rifles, WHETHER SUCH PERFORMANCE IS ACTUALLY REQUIRED OR NOT!

El Deguello--probably the most common-sense explanation of practical hunting accuracy I've read. And, I'm one of those guys that keeps on working with a rifle until it shoots under an inch at 100 or I sell/trade it off and get another one. On our ranch, all of the blinds but one have limits of about 330 yds max. The other one overlooks a CRP field with views out to 800 yds. My limit on that stand is 460 yds as lazed--and only because that is the crossing where many of the large bucks emerge from the brush. Haven't shot at one that far yet, and probably won't as with patience, they usually close within 300 yds for a better shot.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
This may be splitting hairs, but it is NOT the accuracy of the firearm that varies under hunting conditions! It is the ability of the shooter to effectively utilize that accuracy!

IMO, any rifle that will keep ALL its shots in an area 1/2 the size of the vitals of the game being pursued at the maximum range that a shot can conceivably be taken is accurate enough for hunting use under those conditions, assuming the criterion is the ability to reliably kill the game being sought! Most any old M94 in .30/30 Win. or SMLE will meet this test. However, most of us demand a lot better performance from our rifles, WHETHER SUCH PERFORMANCE IS ACTUALLY REQUIRED OR NOT!

You split hairs on this one just FINE. roger

2 through 5 mean zip it's where shot ONE goes that counts.

Try it sometime go to the range or where ever you shoot no fouling shots just do what you would with a game animal in front of you, fire that first shot and that's what counts.

You will find some guns will not print same with a clean barrel as a shot one, I never hunt with a clean barrel at least 4-5 shots down the tube before hand.

That said I still try to dial in my guns to shoot at least 2" or less at 100.

That simple question is a very tough one for me to answer.

I agree with the 1.5-2.0 MOA general response...but for the first 3 shots, not 5. I've never had an opportunity to fire 5 shots at a single game animal while it stayed within what I consider a sporting range. Assuming a perfect hold (which is a PRODIGIOUS assumption under field conditions), that will be adequate to hit an 8" kill zone at up to 400 yards.

I must add that, for me, the 1.5-2.0 MOA standard includes shots from both a clean or dirty barrel, AND a cold or warm barrel. I don't bother to "foul" a barrel before hunting because I've had a number of rifles where I came to believe the prime variable was whether the barrel was cold or warm. With those rifles, clean or dirty didn't seem to make an appreciable difference but barrel temp did.

It's also fair to say my standard varies according to what I am hunting, and where. I really most enjoy "hunting", not long distance "pretend-a-sniping". I like the challenge of finding an animal in wooded or broken terrain, and stalking close enough to kill with just about ANY rifle. Whether I get an animal is not near as important to me as how well I met the challenge of successfully finding, then stalking, the animal(s).

In his book, THE HUNTING RIFLE, Col. Townsend Whelen felt that a rifle that would do two inches at 100 yards was giving excellent hunting accuracy. I'd settle for that from a Model 94 in 3030, but for my bolt action rifles and single shots, 1.5" or better. But, by 1.5", I mean a consistant 1.5". If I sight in 3" high and get a 1.5" group, I expect that rifle to place those shots centered exactly 3" high each and every time consistantly.
I once had a custom Mauser in 30-06 with a beautiful piece of wood for the stock. Sighted in, the first group was exaxtly .375" exactly 3" high at 100 yards. The next group was .375" and 4" low and to the left. The rifle was rebedded with glass four times, and three different scopes were tried to no avail. I expect that id a bird pissed anywhere within a mile of that gun the point of impact would change. I never did get that gun to shoot in that stock. I bought a McMillan synthetic and bedded the rifle in that stock. No, I don't get those tiny .375" groups anymore. It's closer to .80 to 1.0" depending on the load, but the groups and point of impact are consistant. The fancy stock will someday get cut into grips for some of my handguns.
Paul B.

I think 2 MOA is fine. It is more like at what range can you keep all the bullets in a 6 inch circle, and that should be the limit of your shooting.

People emphasis the accuracy of their equipment when they should be out at the range shooting and improving their skills. Yes, you need good equipment, but once you have that, you need to practice. Learn to shoot unsupported, like on the ground. Or sitting. I have shot a lot of animals sitting with a hasty sling.

I shoot Highpower rifle every weekend that I can. I have developed into a really good standing, sitting, and prone shooter. My equipment is first rate. And I am the weakest link in the whole thing, You have to practice to keep these skills current.

I am really confident that if I were to take a sitting or prone position, I would hit what I am aiming at out to 300 yards. Because I have done that in Rattle Battle, or regular Highpower Competition. When you practice, and practice often, you will learn your limitations.

I just got back from killing hundreds of squirrels with 1" or 2" kill zones.

I can do it every time free hand at 30 feet.
That means I can do 10 or 20 moa every time free hand.

At 150 feet, I could lob in 5 rounds real fast from a Ruget 10/22 and get him with one of them. That would be 5 shots free hand to get one of the shots in 2 to 4 moa.

From a rest, we could get them half the time at 140 yards, or .75 to 1.5 moa, when there was no wind or very consistant wind.

What does it all mean?
If it were me shooting free hand in East Texas at deer at 100 yards, for 99%, I would need a good gun, becuase my hands shake 10 moa.

Or, to paraphrase, "It's not what your rifle can do for you, but what you can do with your rifle." A box-or-less-a-year shooter with a benchrest rifle is going to be hard pressed to pass the pieplate test. As poor as out of the box accuracy has been getting, most RIFLES will still pass the pieplate test at 100, usually 200, and possibly even 300 yards, but what the rifle can do isn't the issue. The issue is does the shooter practice enough to be aiming at any game farther away than he can pee? From what I see at the range every fall when they all come out, the answer's usually "NO!" Present company excepted.

Here is a good rule of thumb I found on the net; provided the shooter can hit the target:

When you get a shot, what you know can be as important as all you've done to prepare for it. One thing you must know is your maximum effective range. There's no sense shooting farther; but sneaking up on an animal entails risk. To determine your outside limit, fire six groups, two each from sitting, kneeling and offhand. Do it from hunting positions, with a trail-ready rifle. A sling is permissible; rests and bipods are not. Now, toss out your worst shot from each position. Divide into 12 the average measure of each pair of groups. Multiply the result by 100, and you get your maximum effective range.

For example, say that, from sitting, you print a five-inch group and a six-inch group. Deleting your worst shot, you come up with the five-inch group and one that now measures just four inches. Average group size: 4.5 inches. Divide 4.5 into 12, and you get about 2.66. Multiply by 100 to get 266, the maximum range in yards at which you should be able to plant 9 of 10 shots inside a 12-inch circle. That level of accuracy will bring you lots of venison. The bigger vitals of an elk or a moose allow you to shoot farther with the same high odds (use 16 instead of 12 in the equation).

Versifier

I think you said it all there. Right on!

Can you hit a pie plate with it?

Doesn't it depend on the size of the game and the range at which one must engage it? A pronghorn at 300 yards is a much different target than a moose at 30. If we must use one rifle for both then I was taught some time ago that the ability to make a first round hits at unknown distances from improvised positions against the clock calls for several attributes, of which intrinsic accuracy is only one among equals. I'd much rather have a two inch gun that handles well and has a fine trigger than a sub-MOA rifle that doesn't fit or has a crappy letoff. I suspect more shooters would feel this way if the shooting bench didn't dilute the advantage of the former while concealing the disadvantages of the latter. $0.02

Every bullet (from the chosen rifle) hitting the vital zone (of the chosen critter) at the longest range you intend to shoot, every time.


Smedley

Paul B got it for me ... a consistent 1.5-2MOA is acceptable, but it must be consistent. Before it was fiddled with a touch, a Ruger 7mmRemMag of mine would group 1.25MOA (3 shots) but shift its groups upto 3" apart per group. One minute it was perfect ... barrel cools ... then 2" low and an 1" to the right for the next group. That does nothing good for your confidence. I'd rather have a 3" rifle I was confident with then a 1" rifle I distrusted.
Cheers...
Con

There has been many good points brought up here. One of the most important is consistency. The importance of the first shot also must be looked at. Some guys know they need their barrel fouled. Others know that first shot with a clean barrel will hit where aimed.

When I use to shoot my .300 winny off bipods I was happy with 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. The rifle always hit right where it was supposed to. Back then I did not have a good comfortable bench or range. Now I shoot at a fine range and have a better muzzle brake as well as a custom thumbhole stock. The last group I shot was under an inch at 200 yards.

I think the most important thing when determining what is acceptable accuracy is knowing your own limitations. With my .300 I have the confidence to take shots I would never try with other rifles that will only shoot 1.5-2 MOA. I practice at 300 yards on a regular basis with the rifle. With my other rifles I learn their limitations as well. If this is done you should have no trouble deciding what is your acceptable hunting accuracy.

Consistency is a very important variable (or is describing a variable as consistent an oxymoron?). My 7 Mag is consistent--cleaned her and put her away after the season year before last. Took her out of the safe prior to this past season and the first 3 shots off the bench were 1.5" high, .379" group. Same zero from the two previous years, group size about the same. That is my kind of rifle.