How important is it to use an expander die with the .357 Magnum? Is it bullet dependent like some of the other straightwall cases?

I have grown quite fond of the Redding dies with micrometer tops over the last few years. Also, I am interested in trying out this newfangled "double carbide ring" die to see what that's all about.

In the following kit, the expander die is not included, so I am wondering if I need to add it.

What is your experience with this?

We use expander dies on all our pistol reloads.

Without it you will get bullet shavings, which I do not like to see happen.

Thanks, Saeed!

That is the reason I use them on my other straightwall cases, but I guess I just thought there was something special about the die set. I should've known better.

Thanks again and Happy New Year!

You need to expand the case neck just enough to take the bottom of the bullet. When inserting the bullet it should go in just 2-3 mm with ease. More expansion than needed will result in shorter case life and difficulty to crimp bullet in crimping die.

HOLD ON!!! of course you still need an expander die. The reason the competition set does not include one is that they are specifically made for progressive presses, many of which use a case expander to activate the powder drop. So they assume you already have an expander. They just give you a separate crimper, a totally unnecessary thing, and this set is just made to sell more dies.
More homework is needed before you start reloading with these.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We use expander dies on all our pistol reloads.

Without it you will get bullet shavings, which I do not like to see happen.

Yes. Although on a tangent, IIRC in Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges for Rifles and Handguns Ken Howell advocates using the neck expander in rifle dies in a similar fashion to the pistol dies- not on the upstroke to expand the entire neck, but rather in a separate down stroke to only expand the case mouth enough to accept the bullet base.

Lyman M die? It depends on how small your sizer makes the neck ID, how much you need to inside neck expand. The M dies are like pistol expanders with a bullet diameter portion that makes it easier to start the bullet. They are good for lead bullets but I don't use them for jacketed, we are talking about rifles now.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
HOLD ON!!! of course you still need an expander die. The reason the competition set does not include one is that they are specifically made for progressive presses, many of which use a case expander to activate the powder drop. So they assume you already have an expander. They just give you a separate crimper, a totally unnecessary thing, and this set is just made to sell more dies.
More homework is needed before you start reloading with these.

First off, I only handload using a single stage for handgun & both single stage and hand dies with arbor press for rifle. I find I only trust the lackluster precision of the progressive presses for my high volume shotgun loading. Just too many things to go wrong and too many parts to tinker with. For the high volume handgun, I find my time & money is better spent shooting rather than loading, so I buy it. For the lower-volume shooting I prefer the precision and simplicity of the single stage.

Secondly, I don’t see the crimper as unnecessary in my case. Of course Redding’s business model is to sell as many dies as possible, but I’m not sure that is the reason this die is included. The micrometer top dies do not include crimping capability, unlike the traditional seating dies, therefore it has to be completed in a separate step. Which is why I believe it is included.

But I digress. The question has been answered. I will use an expander die as always. Retrospectively, perhaps it was a dumb question.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

Yes. Although on a tangent, IIRC in Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges for Rifles and Handguns Ken Howell advocates using the neck expander in rifle dies in a similar fashion to the pistol dies- not on the upstroke to expand the entire neck, but rather in a separate down stroke to only expand the case mouth enough to accept the bullet base.

That is interesting. In the rifle calibers I don’t use hand dies for, I have made the switch to Redding type-S dies where available and don’t use an expander. There is some trial and error involved with getting the correct neck sizing bushing perfect, but I think the results are worth it. I use a tungsten carbide VLD chamfer to prevent shaving jacket material off when seating the bullets.

I was giving the factual reason why they do not include an expander die. The part about the crimp die is just useless opinion, not germane to the real question.
I do find progressive presses plenty precise for handgun use. Not an opinion this time; experience.
Of course, each can choose his own method.

Just for grins:

For years I was very anal, used only Norma, Lapua or RWS brass for my hunting rifles. I only neck sized with Redding S dies- first with the carbide floating sizer buttons and then with no expander button at all; used a jeweler's scale with tweezers (+/- 0.05gr), Redding competition seating dies, etc. I used to be able to load up 3, go outside on my porch, shoot a group, go inside scratch my head, load up 3 more, cool down the barrel, then go shoot, etc. But I can't anymore at my house- 8 horses, cows, dogs, the boss etc. Going to the range in the summer heat was impractical and a PITA and required waaay too much organization, patience and short term memory.........

Then last year I started to use a guy to work up loads for me. Anyway, he works up POI loads, not groups. He shoots one, takes the rifle inside lets it cool down, shoots again, etc.

The kicker: he uses generic RCBS FL dies with the plane jane seaters and duplicates the one holers I had shot for years. He's disappointed if he can't make them touch.

I have since gone to Whidden custom non bushing dies and have been very happy. Still use the tweezers

Bottom line- it ain't rocket science as long as you do everything the same (precision is repeatability), but absolutely do what satisfies the 90% between your ears. That's all that counts.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
Just for grins:

I have since gone to Whidden custom non bushing dies and have been very happy. Still use the tweezers

Bottom line- it ain't rocket science as long as you do everything the same (precision is repeatability), but absolutely do what satisfies the 90% between your ears. That's all that counts.

Very interesting story! I haven’t tried the Whidden dies, but I’m going to look into them.

Like so many of us on here, we know that it’s not completely necessary to go to the nth degree, But it sure is fun! And there is something disappointing yet rewarding about blaming yourself for a missed shot and not your equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We use expander dies on all our pistol reloads.

Without it you will get bullet shavings, which I do not like to see happen.

Same here, jacketed or cast, the case mouth gets expended.