Has anyone had any experience with this combination? I'm planning on test-loading them using two powders, RE17 and IMR 4451. The RE17 data is around, but the 4451 is too new to have any loads (at least that I've been able to find). I would be appreciative of your experiences with this bullet/cartridge combo and/or some suggestions on how to start with the 4451 loadings. Thanks in advance.

I've been using the .270 110 TTSX for a while. I used 4350 and found outstanding accuracy at 3170 FPS. Kills very well, I have killed 8 or 9 with it so far, all one shot kills.

I have not used 4451 in the 270 yet, but everywhere else I've tried it the speed has been excellent and it's very lineaer. Just a rough guess, but 3400-3500 might be doable. Enough to get Bambi's attention you think?

Yes, I am interested in the same powders and bullets. I've been getting good groups with 60.5 gn. R-17 and the 110 TTSX, 3410fps in a 22.4" barrel. The primer pockets have held up for 4 loadings, though an occasional 'soft seating' has now been felt and the primers seemed to be a little flatter than in other loads. I would guess that 3400fps is about a max load for a 22.4" barrel.

On the 4451 powder it seems to be slightly bulkier than R-17, so please let us know how much you can stuff in and what kind of accuracy you get. I've got a pound and a half of it to use for this coming Fall.

@ Miles, yes, that's what I've heard, too. RE17 and 4451 are all in the same burn range as 4350, a preferred powder for this bullet according to Barnes. I can't find any 4350 at the moment, and have a pound each of the other two, so I figured what the heck? Having had good experiences with TSX's in the past, I'm looking to turn this into a "death laser" for antelope and deer-sized game. I have a 130gr SP load waiting to be tested with both powders; I plan on posting the results here when I can get to the range to test them out.

@ 416Tanzan, those are promising results. My rifle has a 24" barrel, so I'm expecting close to 3400 with this combo in either powder, accuracy will be the deciding factor. You mention getting good accuracy; any specifics you can share?

I emailed Barnes and they got back to me saying they hadn't shot data for this bullet yet using 4451, but that I could use standard jacketed loading data and work up from there. I'm sure I could carefully increase to the limit, but I'm a little apprehensive on that approach.

I know its not the barnes TTSX, but when I owned my Blaser in .270, I used the 110gr GS Custom Monometal projectiles.

I was using Winchester 760 and looking back through my notes on that barrel (22 inch), 63 grains was the load my rifle liked. Actually, velocity was 3450fps and accuracy a constant 1/2 MOA with alot of groups sub half MOA.

quote:

Originally posted by kiwiwildcat:
I know its not the barnes TTSX, but when I owned my Blaser in .270, I used the 110gr GS Custom Monometal projectiles.

I was using Winchester 760 and looking back through my notes on that barrel (22 inch), 63 grains was the load my rifle liked. Actually, velocity was 3450fps and accuracy a constant 1/2 MOA with alot of groups sub half MOA.

That's good info. I had considered using W760 instead of 4451 as the other powder due to the performance in this range and general versatility. The more I keep looking, the more difficult I'm finding data for 4451 to be. Hodgdon has some for 130+ grain bullets but nothing for lighter weights. I am noticing a strong similarity in the charge weights of IMR-4350 and 4451 where load data is available for both. Charges are actually slightly higher for 4451, so I'm trying to determine if I can use that data to work on the 110 TTSX loads. I know the burn rates are very close for 4350 and 4451.

quote:

I am noticing a strong similarity in the charge weights of IMR-4350 and 4451 where load data is available for both. Charges are actually slightly higher for 4451, so I'm trying to determine if I can use that data to work on the 110 TTSX loads. I know the burn rates are very close for 4350 and 4451.

You'll just have to load up some groups for your particular batch of powder and see what you get. I would aim at 3400fps and check for accuracy. As stated above, I think that you will run out of capacity with 4451 before R-17, but both should produce excellent hunting rounds somewhere between 58 and 61 grains with those 110 grain bullets. You may also need to factor in variables like crimp/no-crimp and new cases versus once-fired. The 110 TTSX should take a crimp nicely on the top groove.

If you test GSC 110 HV, they do not like to be crimped but the neck tension needs to be high. I ordered Lee undersized mandrels to guarantee high neck tension after I ran into problems loading for a 243Win and wanted my 270Win to 'be all that it could be'. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do any testing until Fall, so I will see your results before I can offer any of my own with 4451 and GSC.

I've not come across much data for 760 in the .270 (I actually used 760 very successfully in the .280 , pushing 140grs at 3100 fps from a 22 inch barrel) and 760 I found worked well with the 30/06 using 165gr bullets. Those loads were around the 60gr charge weight with 760, and extremely good accuracy (my 30/06 and .280 were both Remington Mountain Rifles). Maybe that's indicating 760 is an optimum powder and 60gr or thereabouts is the optimum charge weight. The other good thing I've found is that 760 is a relatively easy powder to obtain.

Sorry forgot to add that those loads above were safe and no excess pressure as I took the time to carefully work up those loads. Please take usual precautions and start lower than what I have listed.

quote:

Originally posted by kiwiwildcat:
Sorry forgot to add that those loads above were safe and no excess pressure as I took the time to carefully work up those loads. Please take usual precautions and start lower than what I have listed.

Oh absolutely. I'm still gathering information and will use anyone's personal data as suggrstions only. I should hopefully have something to send downrange by the end of the month.

Odd that you say you've had difficulties finding data for the 270 and Winchester 760. That's one powder that seems to show up everywhere in loading manuals. I suppose with the versatility, it might not be a bad idea to have some on hand anyway.

Yes you are right about 760 and .270, just had a look in my Nosler book.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

I am noticing a strong similarity in the charge weights of IMR-4350 and 4451 where load data is available for both. Charges are actually slightly higher for 4451, so I'm trying to determine if I can use that data to work on the 110 TTSX loads. I know the burn rates are very close for 4350 and 4451.

You'll just have to load up some groups for your particular batch of powder and see what you get. I would aim at 3400fps and check for accuracy. As stated above, I think that you will run out of capacity with 4451 before R-17, but both should produce excellent hunting rounds somewhere between 58 and 61 grains with those 110 grain bullets. You may also need to factor in variables like crimp/no-crimp and new cases versus once-fired. The 110 TTSX should take a crimp nicely on the top groove.

Good insight. That's basically where I'm at with this. 3400 seems to be the nominal velocity for the 110gr bullets, and charges of other similar powders range from 57 to 60gr. I likely won't be crimping, and the cases are going to be new.

Be careful not to use GSC drive band bullet load data with any other bullet. The usual engraving pressure of a standard bullet is around 3500psi and the engraving pressure of a GSC drive band bullet is below 1000psi. With a lighter bullet you would normally use a faster powder than with a heavier one, in the same cartridge. With GSC drive band bullets you would use an even faster powder than what the weight indicates. See this article to get an idea of how easy GSC bullets engrave.

RL 15 47.2 3075 52.5 3342
A-2700 52.0 3101 57.8 3404
H380 51.7 3138 57.5 3407
IMR 4007SSC 51.5 3071 57.2C 3395
Win 760 51.7 3089 57.5 3373
RL 17 52.2 3132 58.0C 3474
*H4350 53.0 3068 58.9C 3381
Hunter 59.1 3260 65.7C 3507
Hybrid 100 V 53.2 3175 59.1C 3448
Powder Minimum Maximum
Charge
(grains)
Velocity
(fps)
Charge
(grains)
Velocity
(fps)
Big Game 54.9 3361 61.0C 3656
RL 15 49.3 3259 54.8 3603
A-2700 55.3 3360 61.5C 3650
H380 55.2 3413 61.3C 3670
IMR 4007SSC 53.6 3245 59.5C 3598
*Win 760 54.1 3330 60.1C 3604
RL 17 54.1 3274 60.1C 3673
H4350 55.9 3266 62.1C 3611
270 Winchester

from barnes online data

Thanks for the info, Tjay. I looked online and Barnes seems to have redone their data (or we're not looking in the same place). Some of those charges, particularly RE-17, since we're talking about it, have been revised at least recently. The charges are way down from what you have there. Makes me think they either a.) found a better way to measure pressure and realized some of those loads were hot, or b.) lawyered up.

I picked up some 110 TTSXs awhile back, thinking it would be a fun option. Besides, with 2 .270 Wins, a WSM and a .270 Weatherby I figured they were bound to shoot in one of them. Well, I figured wrong and out of the 4 I never got a combination good enough that it will ever go hunting. These rifles are known shooters too, and don't have any issues with 130s. The WSM also shoots the Vortec 150 factory load, never tried heavier Barnes in the others.

I've documented some of the changes at Barnes. There is a considerable difference between 2010 and 2015.

In 2010 they provided the following data for their upcoming 5th edition.

For a 95 grain TTSX and 24" 270 Winchester:
powder - - start vel - max - vel density%
2700 - - - - 59.5 3544 64.5 3729 100
IMR 4007SSC 57.0 3425 62.0 3695 105
Win 760 - - 58.5 3524 63.5 3679 98
*RL 17 - - - 56.0 3402 61.0 3709 102
H4350 - - - 58.0 3405 63.0 3636 105
Hunter - - 61.5 3490 66.5 3707 105

Then for 110 grain TSXBT
powder - - start vel - max - vel density%
RL15 - - - - 49.0 3210 53.5 3452 90
Win760 - - - 55.5 3266 60.0 3494 92
H414 - - - - 55.5 3274 60.0 3501 92
IMR 4350 - - 57.5 3287 60.5 3460 104
*H4350 - - - 56.0 3231 59.0 3430 97
Hunter - - 59.0 3321 63.5 3524 99

Notice the velocity with IMR4350 as well as its high loading density (compressed). At the time R-17 was advertised by Alliant as "using IMR 4350 data".
My 22.4"-barreled Tikka liked the 110TTSX bullets, shooting nice three-shot groups between 0.5" and 1.0" at 60.5 grains R17 though with primers starting to lose some of their roundness and a few "easy primer seatings" around the 4-5 re-loadings. Thus, 60.5 is probably a max load, probably pushing a 65k psi average load.

Then in 2015, a few years after being bought out by Remington's conglomerate,
the data for the upcoming 5th editions changed!

For starters the primers in 2010 were Fed210Match while in 2015 they switched to Remington 9.5.
Instead of 'load density' some loads were now listed as 'C' (compressed).
The loads were as reported by TJAY, though he did not record that his second set were for a 95 grain bullet.

For the 95 grain TTSX
powder - - start vel - max - vel
Big Game - - 53.5 3294 59.5 3581
RL 15 - - - 48.3 3197 53.7 3534
A2700 - - - 54.0 3300 60.1C 3584
H380 - - - - 53.5 3344 59.4C 3592
IMR 4007SSC 52.6 3183 58.4C 3529
*Win760 - - 52.8 3271 58.6C 3537
RL 17 - - - 53.1 3210 59.0C 3602
H4350 - - - 54.8 3204 60.9C 3541

For the 110 grain TSXBT and 110 TTSX
powder - start vel - max - vel
RL15 - - - 46.1 3021 51.2 3280
A-2700 - - 50.9 3043 56.6 3340
H380 - - - 50.4 3077 56.0 3340
IMR4007SSC 50.4 3009 55.9C 3325
Win760 - - 50.6 3034 56.2 3312
RL17 - - - 51.2 3071 56.8 3406
*H4350 - - 51.9 3011 57.7C 3317
Hunter - - 57.3 3194 63.7C 3430
Hybrid100V 51.9 3116 57.6C 3382

My comment, having loaded 270Wins for thirty years, is that the velocity for R-17 is reasonable at 3406fps, even with a shorter 22.4" barrel, but it will be a pretty rare combination that will produce that with only 56.8 grains of R-17. As I've mentioned, I use about 60.5 grains of R17, which is the max load for IMR4350 from the 2010 data.

My advice, to be used at your own risk, is to use a chronograph and aim at the 2015 velocities while watching for pressure signs. I would expect that several grains extra powder will be used in order to make up for the larger chamber volumes that will be found in most production rifles, as opposed to the minimum spec test barrel that was apparently used by Remington//Barnes.
For example, their loads for the 129grain LRX were

powder - - start vel - max - vel
RL 17 - - - 47.7 2824 53.0 3128
IMR4350 - - 49.1 2797 54.5 3099
H4350 - - - 48.7 2793 54.1 3057
*Hybrid100V 48.1 2763 53.4C 3090
They apparently used a pretty fast batch of R-17 in their tight chamber. My own rifle would prefer 55-55.5 grains, maintaining top accuracy.
And the old tried and true loads of 4350s were 55-56 grains even without the advantages of the pressure grooves in the bullets and the technology of R-17 and Hybrid100V. Again, use a chronograph, watch for pressure signs, and aim at similar velocities as presented. Those velocities will probably be safe pressures in typical production chambers, especially after 100 rounds have gone downrange in a particular barrel.

PS: With the 110gn TTSX my rifle does 3300fps with 59.0 grains of the new IMR4451. Good accuracy.

Hmmm...that's good information. I figured something was going on with the loading data that it declined since earlier reported. I don't know if they found different data was necessary when they re-shot it with a different primer and likely a different test setup.

Where did you get the data for 4451 for the TTSX? Is that something you developed yourself?

quote:

Where did you get the data for 4451 for the TTSX? Is that something you developed yourself?

Yes, that is how I know its velocity in my rifle. Its actual average was something like 3304, I don't remember offhand.

OK, you guys got my curiosity up. I'm going to take the 270 (Ruger No. 1) for antelope this September so I just ordered some 110 grain TTSXs to try in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
OK, you guys got my curiosity up. I'm going to take the 270 (Ruger No. 1) for antelope this September so I just ordered some 110 grain TTSXs to try in it.

Haha! I'm telling you, the potential benefits of this bullet in the 270 are very, very intriguing. If you can hit 3400fps with it, you have essentially a 257 Weatherby with better sectional density and a broader selection of bullet weights. I have a 130gr practice/deer load to test with the two powders mentioned in this thread, but I'm going to use the 110 TTSX for deer and smaller game if I can get them to shoot well.

PS - I bought the TTSX's from Midway on clearance about a month ago. They had them for $27/box when they're normally closer to $35.

OK, I shot them this morning with 50+ grains of Reloader 15. These are the first four loads that I tried and they show some promise. With a little load development I think that I can get them to shoot some smaller groups.

Barnes says that I can go up to 52.5 grains which should get me to 3400 fps

Very nice.

If 3350 fps stays under 1/2 MOA but 3400 broadens to 1 MOA I would gladly give up the 50 fps. That group at 51.5 grains R-15 suggests that your rifle's best resonances will be found around 51.5 to 52.0 grains.

Wow, very impressive, Frank! That is indeed very promising and it's very tempting to quit at the 51.5 load and call it a day. That's fantastic accuracy for a big game bullet at a very respectable velocity. I'm in the middle of testing a 130gr. load with my 270 right now, but that should be finished shortly and I'll get loading on the 110's with RE17 to compare performances.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of rifle is your 270?

PS: I like the target. What brand or publisher is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:
Wow, very impressive, Frank! That is indeed very promising and it's very tempting to quit at the 51.5 load and call it a day. That's fantastic accuracy for a big game bullet at a very respectable velocity. I'm in the middle of testing a 130gr. load with my 270 right now, but that should be finished shortly and I'll get loading on the 110's with RE17 to compare performances.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of rifle is your 270?

It's an old Ruger No. 1, I printed the rifle, bullet and powder information on the top, left corner of the target.
I have a 3-9X Leupold VX-II on it.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
PS: I like the target. What brand or publisher is it?

I bought them off Amazon and I'm really happy with them. They were $15 for 100 and are printed on heavy paper that won't tear in the wind.

Wallace Brook 100 Yard 2 sided Rifle Target-Great for Sighting in Scope-11.5 inch-100 sheets
by Wallace Brook Archery

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
It's an old Ruger No. 1, I printed the rifle, bullet and powder information on the top, left corner of the target.
I have a 3-9X Leupold VX-II on it.

Oops, missed that.