Don't worry with OAL or cannelure location...

But if the bullet is resting on top of the powder column, how much deeper would you feel comfortable seating the bullet - for hunting ammo?

You might try to compress it with a separate operation by compacting 2/3 of the load with a brass rod in a die....then loading the last of the powder and finally seating.....

Omitting this intermediate step, I wouldn't be afraid of compressing a .375 H&H case load of powder 1/4"

I'm curious also, I'm trying 79.5 grains of IMR4064 with the 260 grain Partitions and my manuals go up to 82 grains. The bullet just kisses the top of the powder stack at 79.5 grains when I seat it. It seems to me that 80 grains and up are going to be up into the neck of the case.

Fjold: Have you shaken down ,or vibrated down the powder in the case? With some shaking down, and some compaction you will probably be able to seat the Partions.(accubonds too)

Having a full case is a good thing, light compaction is also good, but compaction is very bad for a DGR....

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I'm curious also, I'm trying 79.5 grains of IMR4064 with the 260 grain Partitions and my manuals go up to 82 grains. The bullet just kisses the top of the powder stack at 79.5 grains when I seat it. It seems to me that 80 grains and up are going to be up into the neck of the case.

Fjold - I'm able to gain about 2-3 grains or about 1/4" with a 36" drop tube, but still find that i need some more room. I would think that you could get as much 4064 in the case as you needed with a long drop tube.

I'm trying to get more than 81 gr of Accurate 3100 in and the powder "kernels" are pretty large. I'll try comacting it in steps as vapodog suggests.

Final question - would a longer drop tube get any more in than the 36" i'm already using?

quote:

Originally posted by longshots:
Fjold: Have you shaken down ,or vibrated down the powder in the case? With some shaking down, and some compaction you will probably be able to seat the Partions.(accubonds too)

I have an old vibratory case cleaner in the reloading room just for that. I set it up running empty and just hold the base of the case against it for 5 seconds or so to settle all of the powder. I'm going to start doing that with the 375 and 80 grains of powder.

quote:

I have an old vibratory case cleaner in the reloading room just for that. I set it up running empty and just hold the base of the case against it for 5 seconds or so to settle all of the powder. I'm going to start doing that with the 375 and 80 grains of powder.

I tried that... ended up with powder all over the floor

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

I tried that... ended up with powder all over the floor

LOL, Put your thumb over the case mouth.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

I tried that... ended up with powder all over the floor

LOL, Put your thumb over the case mouth.

Got it figure out just gave it a whirl and picked up another 3/16".

Ran the powder into the case with the drop tube (36"), then inserted a 3/8" solid brass rod (turned down a few thou.) into the case mouth and on top of the powder column... held it on top of the tumbler for about 10-seconds and viola!

The vibrating allowed the powder to move around and get "snuggled in"... and the brass rod @ 6" in length provided enough weight on top of the powder to help settle it down.

I got 83.0gr of Accurate 3100 and the bullet seated to the cannelure!

So, is that load technically "Compressed"? I mean the bullet is not being pushed-down into the powder column... by the seating die.

If you didn't hear a crunch when you seated,I wouldn't call it a compressed load. Powder settling is a good thing!

new_guy: Now that you have loaded up those cases, let us know what results you got at the range with your 83 grains of AA 3100. (And by the way, what bullet were you using?)

I find it works fairly well to just softly tap the head of the case on my loading bench top and that settles the powder down just a tad before I seat the bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by BigBrass:
new_guy: Now that you have loaded up those cases, let us know what results you got at the range with your 83 grains of AA 3100. (And by the way, what bullet were you using?)

300gr Hornadys & Woodleighs... I'm just trying to get a low-pressure load for about 2450 - maybe more, but that's all I'm hoping for.

As Ray says more than a bit of compression is not a good thing in a DGR load. Since you mention Woodleighs - I load the 300 Woodleigh FMJ to the cannelure with 79.0gr of AR2209/H4350 in Win cases, WLR primer. In my 24inch Sako H&H I get right on 2600fps & sub 3/4 inch groups at 100m - 3 shots. You can hear the powder grains crunching on seating but there is still a bit of shake after its loaded so not really a compressed load.

That will do for me.

I believe (no personal exp. as I can't get hold of any yet) the ideal powder for the H&H is Re15 & you won't be compressing that unless you are intent on blowing yourself up. If for some reason you can't get Re 15 as we can't in Australia - I have had very good results with Win 760. Again being a ball powder you should not have compression problems there either.

Passing on a warning that was given to me & you won't find it in the reloading manuals - don't use ball powders and Remington (non -Magnum) primers in non-maximum loads. You will get inconsistent results and cases that show excessive pressure but low velocity. I believe for the same reasons as you get with the Secondary Explosion effect with low loads of slow burning powder.

Use WLR & you don't need the Magnum stuff.

Regards
JohnT

Good Info JohnT,

I use only WW bras and Fed 215 primers.

H4350 is my preferred powder, I load 78gr to about 2500fps... which puts me in about the 51K psi range - and which i like.

I'll be in Zim in late october this year (read: HOT!) and was tinkering with some slower burning powders to get pressure even lower (not that i probably need to, but Hey - that's why we reload to experiment!

Additionally, I am working with some RL 15 and the North Fork Cup-Point bullets. I'll post some info next week - off to the range this weekend.

Re: RL-15 in Aust...

How bout Norma 203? Art Alphin says they're the same.

So... Why is compression bad for DGR loads? Any Shot You Want pretty much says the opposite, IIRC.

All of mine are compressed-- there's no way to load 80+ grains of IMR-4320 in a .458 Lott case under a 500 gr. bullet without compression. And the same with H-4350 in the .375 H&H.

Is the concern that they'll grow in OAL? Won't a good crimp (like the Lee factory crimp) prevent this?

quote:

Originally posted by pertinax:
So... Why is compression bad for DGR loads? Any Shot You Want pretty much says the opposite, IIRC. (snip)

The bad reputation arose from Winchester's early loadings of the .458 Win Mag. The ball powder used had a heavy deterrent coating (like many ball powders) and this coating could, with compression, result in an amalgamation of the entire powder charge into one big mass. Supposedly this happened more in the heat.

When this happened, velocity was greatly reduced and this gave the .458 Win a bit of a black eye as regards its reputation. A friend and I chronographed some really old Winchester loads some years ago, and the muzzle velocity was something like 1600fps if I recall correctly... We pulled one bullet, and the powder would not shake out -- we had to poke around with a nail to break it up.

I've never heard of any problems with NON-ball powders and heavy compression (other than the bullet "growing" back out over a few days if the crimp is not enough to hold the bullet against the compressed powder)... But of course this does not mean that it can't happen.

I use a long drop tube and vibrate my cases with a battery-powered shaver, then seat the bullet with compression on top of that. As long as the force of seating a bullet does not bulge the case it has worked great for me.

jpb

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

Fjold - I'm able to gain about 2-3 grains or about 1/4" with a 36" drop tube, but still find that i need some more room. I would think that you could get as much 4064 in the case as you needed with a long drop tube.


Final question - would a longer drop tube get any more in than the 36" i'm already using?

new_guy,

While 4064 is one of my favorite powders, it is also one of the bulkiest..

Reloder 15 has been extremely accurate for me with that bullet mentioned (260 partition); giving full velocities without compression for me. Similar to 4064 in performance but denser per grain weight.

I like a 100% loading density without compression. I don't like heavy compression, especially in the heat. Atkinson is speaking from the voice of experience to you.

Denser powders are your answer. They vary more than one thinks. 3100 is also on the "bulky" end of things..........

Patience is a virtue when using drop tubes or vibration to settle your charge. A real long tube is just trying to "speed" the patience part past a 16" IMHO.

BigRx