Hi guys

This one I just dont get... a case will fit (tightly) without the bullet seated. Seating the bullet alters the case (somehow) so the case no longer fits the chamber...
1. Not a case neck problem. case necks measuring more, have chambered fine and still do.
2. headspace checked. Cases with more or less headspace chamber fine.
3. Length of case is not altered. Checked.
4. col checked. It should fit in there.

Rifle is a Blaser K95 break top single barrel.

Please help me out

Best regards Niels

didn`t catch necks had been neasured

check for a buldge just below the sholder.
Are you full length or neck sizing?
if you are crimping the bullet you may have your die adjusted down to far creating a buldge just below the sholder.
were these cases fired in this rifle?
Dave

Have you measured diameter of fired vs sized vs loaded necks?? If your fired necks are at least .002" above loaded neck diameter, then you should be fine in this respect.

Likewise, measure shoulder and web diameter of fired vs. sized vs. loaded brass. Again, you'll need at least .001-.002" (more commonly .003" and upwards) between fired and loaded round dimensions.

Breaktop actions are obviously not as suitable for chambering tight fitting brass as bolt actions would be. So the dimensional tolerances can't be as tight as you'd use in a bolt action.

Hivelocity's remark of possibly creating a bulging shoulder through an incorrectly adjusted seating die is a possibility.

Do you seat with a crimp, and does that cause the case neck to bulge below the case mouth?? Do you use (match) bullets with a flare at the rear of the bullet (forget the technical term), and does this make the loaded necks flare over that location? Either question should be answered by measuring loaded neck diameter.

If all else fails, mark a loaded (dummy) round with soot or a magic marker at bullet, neck, shoulder and web. Chamber it and see if this produces scratch marks after an attempted chambering.

- mike

I`ve had the same problem with the same cartridge and with a 6x62R Freres, too, in the older k77 model.

The problem was with a small rim that formed at the junction of the neck and the shoulder on the inside of the neck forming like a dough-nut.

Maybe, the cartridge design had to do with this problem as it only seem to happen in large or very large cases with a very short neck. It never happenen on 6,5x57R or 7x57R barrels.

When the bullet was seated, it would expand the neck unevenly at this point (the inside diameter was too tight at this point for the bullet diameter) and the extremely tight chamber of the k77, and the lack of camming action of a single shot would not allow it to close.

I ordered an oversized inside neck reamer from Forster and running it through the cases solved the problem.

Never heard of this problem in the new k95 model. Could be that tolerances are not so strict any more, I am not sure.

Regards,

Montero

I too had difficulties but with some 6.5x57R loads in my K95. I traced it to very slightly high primers which was cured by using a primer pocket reamer sparingly.

I also had issues with the die sizing down overly creating considerable drag when the case was pulled down past the expander ball. Careful lubrication of the necks and some polishing of the expander cured this.

I measured the necks again. Top and bottom. In the part close to the shoulder, it does have a slightly larger diam. ...?? I measured up to max. which is 7,57mm. Maybe the gasses cause the brass to flow forward, thus creating a thicker neck, in that part. But the cases were only shot once..

Anyway... Inside reaming..?? Why not outside neckturning?

INSIDE reaming.

I asked that very same question some time ago on a German Hunting Forum. Got a VERY good answer:

the "ring" is on the inside of the case after firing. So inside reaming the fired case will remove it.

Its also on the inside after sizing, the Sizing knob seems not to be strong enough, to push the ring to the outside ( or the brass too elastic ).

Inside reaming the FIRED case, because else the ring will perhaps partially be outside, partially inside. Use a Forster Inside reamer, I was advised.

Good shooting! Hermann

If your cases came out of the rifle, they should go back into the rifle without having to size the neck all the way to the neck/shoulder juncture.

Is it possible that you have the die screwed down too far and the seater plug/stem up too far? If so, you could be hitting the crimp shoulder in the die, and pushing the body of the case out where the shoulder starts forward.

I once found a complete box of 20 brand new .270 shells in a refuse can at our range. There was nothing wrong with the cartridges visually, but a michrometer told me exactly what happened, once I got home. It was as I stated above. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder and found brand new cases. Full length re-sizing and proper adjustment of the seating die eliminated the problem.

Did some more measuring and testing for chamber fit...
Some sized cases wont fit in there, even without the bullet seated. Not cases shot in my rifle. Not until I push headspace back a mile, will they fit, and then not with a seated bullet.
Think I will have to inside ream or neckturn everything. When the bullet is seated, there is a small bulge in the junction of the neck and shoulder, like you guys said. This is, only with some of the cases, though.
What is the drill, when inside reaming?

Will a neckturn remove material from the beginning of the shoulder, if I want it to??

Best regards

Niels

Niels, this tool should solve your problem:

http://www.forsterproducts.com/Pages/trim_reamer.htm

Niels,

I had the same issue initially with my K-95 7X57R.

I painstakingly adjsuted the headpace of my Dies to the rifle's chamber which I do with every rifle/Die Set.

After two reloadings of the same batch of (RWS) brass found that two or three out of 50 would not chamber. At the time I was still in the load testing stage and using four different bullets for load testing. The condition existed with all four of the bullets; their bases which all extended below the shoulder/neck junction area.

Anyway, for me & my K95 the solution was eliminated with two things:
1. A additional 1/4 turn down of the Sizing Die.
2. A dedicated Shell Holder for this particular rifle % Die Set (it was a tad thinner than the RCBS Shell holder I was initially using allowing for the Sizing De to be adjusted downwards without the "Bump" which can created too much headspace).

Anyway, like yourself, initially there was much head-scratching and measuring which turned out to be much less dramatic than all the measuring of neck & bullets.

Niels, you seem to have run into a a pretty commonly known problem. If you can read German, here is a thread dealing with the same issue:

http://www.wildundhund.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17848&highlight=6+5x65r

- mike

I will try reaming the insides of the necks. But I hate the idea, so I have just ordered a Sinclair neckturning kit. I just might try it for my other calibers, anyway.

For inside neck reaming... Is it necessary to mount everything up in a special Forster or Wilson tool? Could the reaming be made by turning the case by hand?

quote:

Originally posted by Niels:
Hi guys

This one I just dont get... a case will fit (tightly) without the bullet seated. Seating the bullet alters the case (somehow) so the case no longer fits the chamber...
1. Not a case neck problem. case necks measuring more, have chambered fine and still do.
2. headspace checked. Cases with more or less headspace chamber fine.
3. Length of case is not altered. Checked.
4. col checked. It should fit in there.

Rifle is a Blaser K95 break top single barrel.

Please help me out

Best regards Niels

If its not the donut, your guns chamber could be oval shaped. Try marking the case and indexing it to see if it will fit then. If the chamber is oval, a small base FL sizing die maybe needed. Basic rule of reloading, don't use brass that was fired in a different gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Niels:
I will try reaming the insides of the necks. But I hate the idea, so I have just ordered a Sinclair neckturning kit. I just might try it for my other calibers, anyway.

For inside neck reaming... Is it necessary to mount everything up in a special Forster or Wilson tool? Could the reaming be made by turning the case by hand?

When i neck turn 243win brass, using a Lyman turner, i FL resize using the expander button. This should mover the donut to the outside of the neck.Remember to set your FL sizing die with the extra 1/8 turn so you will be able to fully turn to the junction of the shoulder neck area. When making 243 out of 308 brass, sometimes you need to turn the necks 2 times, after the 2nd firing.

[/QUOTE] If its not the donut, your guns chamber could be oval shaped. Try marking the case and indexing it to see if it will fit then. If the chamber is oval, a small base FL sizing die maybe needed. Basic rule of reloading, don't use brass that was fired in a different gun.[/QUOTE]

thanks for the input guys.

The chamber is not oval.
There is a very distinct sign of a donut at the junction of neck and shoulder. How the he.. it forms or what causes it to form I have no idea of...!!
Why should we not use once fired brass, from another rifle??

quote:

Originally posted by Niels:
"Why should we not use once fired brass, from another rifle??"

Chambers are not all alike, some big some small. When you Full Length Resize, the sizing die does not go all the way to the head. This part of the brass can be larger then your chamber. Not a problem with most guns , but something to watch out for when having a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by 243winxb:

quote:

Originally posted by Niels:
"Why should we not use once fired brass, from another rifle??"

Chambers are not all alike, some big some small. When you Full Length Resize, the sizing die does not go all the way to the head. This part of the brass can be larger then your chamber. Not a problem with most guns , but something to watch out for when having a problem.

Aha... so you have had contact with cases that had been pressure overloaded. The case head only is altered with very heavy loads. I read some where... A decently good method to check a load for max pressure, actually.