What can I use when I go to the range to see first hand what a bullet looks like after it expands? 5 water jugs? Box packed with newspapers? Thanks for the help!

You can used jugs of water or paper; however, do not confuse the expansion you observe with the bullet's performance in a living animal. I have found wet telephone books set up in boxes to test expansion. The problem with jugs of water is that you must change jugs after every shot. Ku-dude

Thanks for the idea. I dont want to know exactly what it would look like after going into an animal, I am just curious what it looks like after going into whatever. I will give the phone book idea a try.

The details are important here. The phone books must be soaked before hand. How are you going to get them to the range or are you going to soak them there? Do you have the time for this?

I use water filled 1/2 gallon paper cartons. This is easy for me to do at my camp in VT as I can fill them in the sink or brook and dispose of the cartons afterwards in the stove. It takes about six cartons to stop many bullets and nine to stop the deep penetrators. Its easy to find the expanded bullet in the last carton and it's a very uniform method.

Bob Hagel had the best bullet box that I ever heard of but he had a permanent set up for it.

Additional details:
Also, and very important give thought as to where you are going to get these telephone books. How much will they weigh. Will anyone else at the range be firing into telephone books, if so this could solve all your detail problems regarding acquisition, transporting, weight etc..

Water more closely approximates bullet performance in tissue than soaked paper. For simulating bone, use water soaked fired clay bricks. The respective material densities are pretty close.

I like the wet newsprint. The jugs are easier to set up, but with one shot that is all you get . The paper method is messy but you can shoot differnt bullets into the same median to test. You didn't say what kind of caliber and bullet you are trying out. Most rifle caliber need at least 25" to make sure they stop. X bullets, partitions, and failsafes are great penerators. Ross Seyfried recommended the paper method because you can also put bones, water baggies (simulate lungs, liver) dry magazines out out side for skin, etc to build your self a creature to shoot. You can very the size bone for elk, deer, lung shot, shoulder, etc. I have never did this....yet. But I have did just the paper. It is intresting what you can "see" with the sound channel. The paper must be put vertical not stacked for the best results. If you are handloading you can very you velocity to simulate inpact speed at different yardage. Once you have fired into the paper a few time you can "push" the holes shut. Then I rotate the paper. The front turns into paper mush and the back just have some holes in it. I put the wet paper in a box and then put a dry paper box behind to stop any from getting fully through. I will have to dig but I think (if my memory is correct) That 44 mag 240 keith and 300LFN went through 32" of wet paper and 5-7"into the dry. Dry stops things much quicker. This can be a fun and scientific project. You would laugh when you see me shoot a shell, go up to the box with a tape meassure and caliper to measure with a pad. Lots of fun compareing bullets. This test has changed my mind on useings certain brand or types of bullet because they fragment and come apart . Checking the wound channel is also intresting to see how a cast pistol bullet is different than a expanding, etc. As for paper I found news print the best because it soaks up water, I have use used computer paper from work and that was good but it doesn't hold the water as well.

I have shot into milk cartons. I sometimes didn't recover bullets because the yawed off and when into the ground, or flew out etc. This is very visual. I use this to show the power of a gun to little kids so they understand the power and that guns are not toys. (I let them throw a base ball at one, then a BB gun, then I shoot come kind of cannon to expode the carton ). The milk carton method is very easy to set up and is not as messy.

Some people also shoot into sawdust. I never have.

Sorry to be long winded but this is a fun subject that gets me excited every time I do it. Oh another thing is I use a test bullet as a stand to compare to. 30/06 factory corelock usually. I can't wait for it to get warm so I can try this with my 480.

Have fun!!

Hcliff

[ 12-28-2002, 20:29: Message edited by: Hcliff ]

Another thing. Don't put water filled containers on anything good. The force will break a board or table! Use the ground to line them up.

I like to use dry magazines lined up in a box. It tears the hell out of most bullets, but that's how you separate the men from the boys. Just for a comparison. A speer 180gr .308 cal at 2730 fps failed to send any of the 1,000 bits and pieces more than 4" into the box. A barns X 45fps slower penitrated 14-16" in three shots. I don't think that this is an accurate simulation of live flesh, but I think it is a good test of worst case senario.

Thanks for the info!! In regards to details: I am shooting an 06, usually at the range alone, have a truck so transportation is easy, there are phone books hanging all over the place in the city , I have the time for just about anything seeing as I am a teacher and dont go back to school till January 6th Hope to give this a try in the upcomming week. My dad works for a newspaper so that would be any easy thing to load into some boxes. Thanks again for the help and the long winded stories

I read somewhere of useing large (qt?)zip loc baggies filled with water and set in a wood rack to hold them in line. They`re easy to find, fill them on site (no wet mess), and can be quickly set up.

I haven`t tried `em my self, just heard of useing them.

Tiny,
Just a regular red clay building brick about 100x70x220mm (4"x2.75"x8.6"). With water, hanging bags in a steel frame within a solid steel trough works well. Just replace the bags that are broken every time and pick up the bullet from the floor plate. If bullets hit the sides of the trough, it is because they have expanded in an irregular manner, causing them to curve as they penetrate. Such performance can be regarded as a bullet failure as it is usually the reason why the vitals are not hit when the shot angles become awkward. It is easy to introduce all kinds of other stuff in between the bags as well.

I have been following this post and reread my post and realize I am really a geek . I forgot to tell you that a garbage can is the best way to get the paper wet. Just throw it in there nad let it sit. If you stack it nice it take to long to soak. Have Fun

Hcliff