My once fired brass does not fit in the chamber after passing through the sizer die. Should I get a neck sizing die?

I doubt there is anything wrong with your FL die. You can switch over to a Neck die if you want, but sooner or later you will have to FL your brass anyway.
A couple of things to check.
Do you have the FL die set up properly? Screwed in to touch the shell holder and then 1/8 to 1/4 more.

Is your brass to long? Does it need trimming?

Did you apply any lube to the inside if the neck? Sometimes the expander button can stretch the brass as it is pulled trough the neck.

Gab, if your FL sized cases won't chamber then they ain't sized enough. It is possible but VERY RARE that any FL sizer won't get to at least a usable size IF the case is pushed in far enough.

Never mind the instructions of "screw the die in a half turn deeper" etc., you need to adjust as needed for YOUR press and shell holder and die.

Install your FL die and press a lubed case into it, ram fully up. Then get down and look at the junction of the shell holder and die. If there's an open gap showing you need to go that much deeper. Withdraw the case, screw the die down a little and try again; repeat until the space disappears and lock the ring in place there. Bet your cases will chamber then.

I ran them through the FL die till the shellholder hit the bottom of the die. I painted the shoulders and i got some rings around the shoulders when I tried to chamber them.
Lube was minimal. I will play with it some more tomorrow.
How do I get that 1/4 or 1/8 more?

The 1/4 or 1/8 more just means that the shell holder is pressing hard against the die, not just up against it. Once you screw the die down to touch the shell holder with the ram all the way up, let the ram down and screw the die in another 1'4 turn and then lock the die in place. I wouldn't think you would have to do that, though.

Is the brass once fired from your gun, or someone else's?

I was given some brass from a buddy for my 300 wby that was once fired from his brother's gun. Even after FL sizing, I could not get it to work in my gun. My gun had a VERY small chamber and it simply wouldn't work.

It sounds to me like your brass needs a trimming.

Do they chamber again without sizing? If so, that's probably the problem.

By the way, what part of ND are you from? I'm from West Fargo.

When you FL size brass the die squeezes in the case walls as the round is pushed into the die. This causes the shoulder to bulge forward. When you force the case in deep enough the shoulder will be pushed back where it belongs. The extra brass then is pushed up the neck making the case neck longer.
What they said above is correct just size the case more. If that does not work then size pull the case partly out of the die (do not pull the expander through the neck) rotate it and size it again. The second sizing sometimes gets the job done. I have the same problem on a rifle that drags on a GO head space gauge. It just has a minimum head space set up that my die does not quite work for.

quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel:
My once fired brass does not fit in the chamber after passing through the sizer die. Should I get a neck sizing die?

Your once-fired (IN THE SAME GUN!!) brass should go back in the rifle and allow you to close the bolt EVEN BEFORE IT IS RUN THROUGH ANY DIE!! Assuming it does, your FL sizing is causing the problem.

If your brass will indeed rechamber before sizing, remove the case mouth expander shaft and size the outside of the case - now test it. If it will rechamber, then your expander is dragging too much and is pulling the shoulder forward to the point that the head-to-shoulder length is to great. Lubing the expander button will resolve this issue.

If this is NOT the cause, try screwing the sizing die into the press about 1/4 turn FURTHER, size a case, then try chambering it. Continue this 1/4 turn, size & test until the bolt JUST CAN BE CLOSED on the case with a little effort. When you get to this point, lock the ring and use this setting from now on!

A rare but possible solution. I once had a Mark X Mauser in .300 Win. mag. that once fired brass would chamber, but not after resizing. I could not screw the die down far enough. The problem was a chamber a bit too small to be within specs. What I did was place the shell holder in a vice and carefully remove about 20 percent of the metal off the top of the holder using a fine toothed file. I was then able to screw the die down enough that the brass would now enter the chamber, although it was till a hair snug.
Shell holders are not expensive and that just might turn the trick. Just don't take too much off the top. Take a little, then try. If it needs more, take a little more, then try.
Paul B.

Thanx for all your help.
It is interesting, that I have two boxes of once fired brass. One would chamber good, the other one is too tight.
I do think the expander was too new and was dragging to much. I ran the non fitting brass through the FL die again, and they seem to work better now. The rifle has less than 50 rounds fired, I think it will get better with time.
I appreciate all your help!

What brass or brand didn't chamber ?. Curious as always .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I find it interesting that you can’t resize your once fired cases to fit in your chamber.

FC from Fusion and thanx for asking. The other box I was talking about just fitting fine is Winchester. It looks like the brass is shit!
It is interesting, since they slide in fine after being fired, but once I get the primers out and resize, everything gets tighter. It doesn't make sense.
Like I said before, the pressuremarks are only on the shoulder, that's what the dye says.

Have you tried to adjust your die yet?

What should I adjust on it?

I squeezed the brass in the die without the expander and outside the shellholder to see if that's the problem. It wasn't.After getting the shell out, it still would be a little tight. And it seemed to happen only to the FC brass, so my die should be OK, right?

Your chamber was cut too small.

Sounda like a guy that needs to get a reloading manual and read it from cover to cover and then get out the set up instructions for his dies and read them before he blows his fingers off.

Sure, and if an exception occurs???
I actually squeezed a couple through the die today. Winchester works great, FC was still tight? Do you have a troubleshooting guide stillbeeman? There isn't anything in the instructions.

Measure OAL of spent cartridge . Now run it through FL sizer die , measure again . ?. Do one with Winchester do one with Federal any differences ?. Did anything change ?. Smoke the shoulder or magic marker it after sizing place into chamber . What happens ?.

We'll figure it out !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
Measure OAL of spent cartridge . Now run it through FL sizer die , measure again . ?. Do one with Winchester do one with Federal any differences ?. Did anything change ?. Smoke the shoulder or magic marker it after sizing place into chamber . What happens ?.

We'll figure it out !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Hi Doc
Both cases measure 2,12 after FL resizing, however the smoking shows more pressure on the Fed than on the Win. On the Fed there are pressuremarks from the body to the neck; on the Win the marks are one the shoulder, just above the body.

Gabriel, without your brass and your rifle, I can't troubleshoot it but I'll bet hard money that when you find your problem, it'll be you.
To begin with, disregard the Win brass. It fits, the Fed brass doesn't. It's obvious you have two different tempers of brass. Were the Feds fired in your rifle? Have your resized them all or do you have some that are merely fired? If you have some that haven't been resized, do they fit easily into the chamber?

What caliber is this, and also what make/model of gun?

If it is an autoloader you may need small base dies. Additionally, just double check you have the proper shellholder.

What case lube are you using?

I had the same problem in three rifles.It seems that lately,some rifles are made with chambers that fit only new,unfired brass.I used to get the best accuracy with fireformed or resized cases but now get it with new,unfired cases.Resized cases now require effort to close the bolt and fireformed cases may not fit at all.I had this happen on a rebbarel job also.It seems that tight chabers are the latest thing.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
Gabriel, without your brass and your rifle, I can't troubleshoot it but I'll bet hard money that when you find your problem, it'll be you.
To begin with, disregard the Win brass. It fits, the Fed brass doesn't. It's obvious you have two different tempers of brass. Were the Feds fired in your rifle? Have your resized them all or do you have some that are merely fired? If you have some that haven't been resized, do they fit easily into the chamber?

The once fired brass comes from my rifle and the Fed does fit tighter after being fireformed, howerver, FL resized Fed brass fits worse!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
What caliber is this, and also what make/model of gun?

If it is an autoloader you may need small base dies. Additionally, just double check you have the proper shellholder.

What case lube are you using?

It is a REM 700 XCR in 300WSM. The gun shoots very nice. For case lube I use the RCBS, but thinking about switching to Astroglide or KY

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I had the same problem in three rifles.It seems that lately,some rifles are made with chambers that fit only new,unfired brass.I used to get the best accuracy with fireformed or resized cases but now get it with new,unfired cases.Resized cases now require effort to close the bolt and fireformed cases may not fit at all.I had this happen on a rebbarel job also.It seems that tight chabers are the latest thing.

I don't mind the tight chambers if that's the problem. Some people pay for them.

What brand of die are you using? I have read there was some earlier 300WSM FL dies that were out of specs.

Have you adjusted the die yet?

A couple of suggestions/questions.

Are you using graphite or motor mica inside you case neck to ease the entry and exit of the expander button?

Take a page from the cast bullet shooters. Remove the expander stim on you resizing die. try chambering the case. If this works move on to....Use a Lyman 'M' die to expand your neck.
Try chambering the case.
I'm betting one of these will solve your problem.
Jim

Are you brushing the inside of your case necks? If not do so. I chuck a proper sized bore brush in a drill motor and make short work of it. Use mica as a inside neck lube. Take the resizing stem and ball out of the die and chuck it in a drill motor. Using 0000 steel wool, lightly buff the ball. You're not trying to resize it, merely making sure it's nice and smooth. If you've a build up of crud in the neck and your resizer ball is a bit rough and your brass is on the soft side, you could be drawing your shoulder forward on the down stroke.
Once again, you have determined that it takes a good, firm effort to "cam over" your press handle when lifting the ram to an empty die. And with a case in place, there is no space between the shell holder and the die when the ram is up?
The RCBS lube is fine. I've used it for years. It's not your problem.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Your chamber was cut too small.

That's ridiculous!

How is your sizing die adjusted now? Does the shellholder touch the bottom of the die at the top of the sizing stroke, and the cases are still not permitting easy chambering? If so, you may have to remove a little steel from the top of the shellholder to permit the case to go further into the die when sizing, as was mentioned in a previous post above. IF your die and shellholder are both of the same make, the fit should be correct, without having to slice any metal off the shellholder.

I have neverfound a set of quality dies (Redding, Forstyer, RCBS, Lyman) that would not size a case correctly (sufficiently) if used with a shellholder of the same make.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Your chamber was cut too small.

That's ridiculous!

How is your sizing die adjusted now? Does the shellholder touch the bottom of the die at the top of the sizing stroke, and the cases are still not permitting easy chambering? If so, you may have to remove a little steel from the top of the shellholder to permit the case to go further into the die when sizing, as was mentioned in a previous post above. IF your die and shellholder are both of the same make, the fit should be correct, without having to slice any metal off the shellholder.

I have neverfound a set of quality dies (Redding, Forstyer, RCBS, Lyman) that would not size a case correctly (sufficiently) if used with a shellholder of the same make.

The shellholder does touch the bottom of the die and I did try resizing with the stem out.
The results were better, but not great, meaning that it takes some strength to close the bolt.
Initially I thought that my OAL was to long, than I tried to chamber an empty shell.....like I said, tried!
The shellholder and dies are RCBS.
I'll do some more experimenting this weekend!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I had the same problem in three rifles.It seems that lately,some rifles are made with chambers that fit only new,unfired brass.I used to get the best accuracy with fireformed or resized cases but now get it with new,unfired cases.Resized cases now require effort to close the bolt and fireformed cases may not fit at all.I had this happen on a rebbarel job also.It seems that tight chabers are the latest thing.

More fun from shot-aways! Ammunition is made by the factories to SAAMI dimensional specifications. Chambers are cut by the makers to meet SAAMI dimensional specifications. The specs for chambers are slightly bigger than for cartridges, so the damn cartridges wil chamber in the barrels! (It is possible that some chambers come from the factroy a little small due to reamer wear. Some may even be a little larger because the reamer is new. But all must be within specification range to pass acceptance inspections.) When the round is fired, it expands up and seals against the chamber walls, then springs back SLIGHTLY so it can be extracted. This is why most cartridge cases are made of brass, for the elasticity. Yet, even though they do spring away from the chamber walls a little bit, they rarely (NEVER!!) return to the size they were when they left the factory. This is why we have to resize them. However, even when we FL size the case, it is never reduced to the original size it was before being fired the first time. (Yes, there are some resizing dies that will return a case to original specs. But most average ones don't!!) For our purposes, it is not essential that the die size a case back to as small as it was when it came from the factory-it only has to reduce it enough so it will re-enter a factory spec. chamber, and the neck has to be reduced enough to hold the new bullet. The chamber of a gun is only required to allow new unfired brass to fit-that's why cases fired in other guns often won't chamber in yours!! But if a fired case won't fit back into the chamber it was fired in after FL sizing, the die is not sizing it down enough for some reason, or the die is doing something to the case to make it bigger in some dimension than it was when you dragged it out of the chamber!

quote:

It sounds to me like your brass needs a trimming.

Brass gets longer when it's sized.

Hey Gabriel, Have you adjusted your FL die according to the recommendations above and according to the directions that came with your die?

Yes I have!
I think I have it figured out.
No case lube at all, expanding stem smoothened and quick jerk on the handle.
I bent two shells to figure out the right force and it finally worked, however, I will stay away from Fed brass in the future.
Thank you guys for all your input!

quote:

Hi Doc
Both cases measure 2,12 after FL resizing, however the smoking shows more pressure on the Fed than on the Win. On the Fed there are pressuremarks from the body to the neck; on the Win the marks are one the shoulder, just above the body.

Gabriel ; What did they measure prior to FL resizing ?. One needs to know that actually all measurements prior to firing ( A New Round that chambers without being tight ) after firing then again after FL or neck sizing . this determines IMO as to where the problem is .

Shoot Straight Know Your target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:

quote:

Hi Doc
Both cases measure 2,12 after FL resizing, however the smoking shows more pressure on the Fed than on the Win. On the Fed there are pressuremarks from the body to the neck; on the Win the marks are one the shoulder, just above the body.

Gabriel ; What did they measure prior to FL resizing ?. One needs to know that actually all measurements prior to firing ( A New Round that chambers without being tight ) after firing then again after FL or neck sizing . this determines IMO as to where the problem is .

Shoot Straight Know Your target . ...

Doc, I trimmed one case to the bone and still would not fit. That's because the case shoulders were like a body builder's . Well not quite...

I don't remember exact numbers, but I made sure the length was the same as unfired. I played around, measured and experimented and now I have it figured out!