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| One of Us |
Dera All, I have a Martini Henry (not he Gehendra) and want a smokeless load to replicate the old 85gr Curtiss black powder load behind a 480gr cast lead. I intend to paper patch a 450 pure lead cast. I have tried Trail Boss with my 450 Nitro double with success in the past and was wondeing is this the way to go in my Martini? regards | ||
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You might try the Martini-Henry forum at Gunboards and the single forum at Cast Boolits Those guys shoot MH and even Gahendras. | |||
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Nothing wrong with real black powder and it is much safer in old, huge capacity, cases. However, I sometimes use 5744 in my 45-70s, etc, 30 grains or so. It is position insensitive, which is important. | |||
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  A short vid of shooting these loads. No BP smoke but fun nonetheless. This is a rifle I made a new stock for. | |||
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I no longer use pistol powder for big BP cases; it is too easy to run pressures up real fast. 5744 was invented to avoid that problem. Or use medium burners like 3031. | |||
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My suggestion would be to use 40% of the original charge of black powder with IMR 4198. I've been using this ratio for 30+ years in old Winchester and Colt firearms as well as bpe double rifles and all were safe and shot accurately. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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| Administrator |
I have used Unique in cartridge, worked very well. In fact, Unique is my first choice for those old calibers, as well as reduced loads in modern big bores. | |||
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I'm actually with DPCD on this. I have used XMP5744 in .577-450 and in .577 Snider. Google the British Militaria Forums on Yuku. Ground zero for Martini stuff. Saeed, I've had good luck with Unique for .45-70 cast bullet loads. Von Gruff, that's a gorgeous Martini you restocked. Is the appendage on the left side of the receiver some sort of sight system? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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4198 is also a good choice; as I said, I used to use pistol powders for big bores but do not any more as they can easily jump pressure on you, fast and furious. I have an old Lyman book that uses nothing but fast burners; they don't print that book any more. | |||
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This can be a tough one because modern drawn cases have much greater powder capacity than the original old paper lined cases. Check out "britishmilitaria.com", everything you want to know plus some. Best | |||
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Thanks for the quick response fromyou all. I'll keep you posted as to how I get on. Thanks again Clive | |||
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While there are any number of powders that can be used for reduced pressures in older black powder cartridges, TrailBoss is probably one of the best. You may have to contact Hodgdon or Sierra for the correct load data but as I understand it TrailBoss is insensitive to position and bulky enough that in most cases it is difficult to go over the pressures of modern arms. In your case, using it in a black powder application, the pressures should be kept to around 12-15000 psi. Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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Many thanks to all. I think I will try two powders, the Trail Boss with which I am familiar and the Accurate 5744 and see how it goes. I'll run the figures through Quickload and make sure I stay below 15,000 PSI. Failing that, I could go traditional and use Black Powder, I was just trying to avoid too much hot soapy water and cleaning. Thanks again Clive | |||
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Munty, A few years ago "Double Gun and Singleshot Journal" had an article, I think by Ross Seyfried,that included smokeless loads for the 450/577. You can probably get a back issue from them. If you go to black you'll run into the case capacity issue, modern cases require about 110-120 grains to reach the neck at which point you can add wads. This is a good bit more than the original load and probably more than you want to shoot. Best | |||
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| one of us |
Clive, most of us on this side of the pond are using the Magtech/CBC 24 gauge shotgun cases formed, trimmed and annealed. In addition to taking a large pistol primer, they also have immense capacity. Most of my Martini homies are running 85 grains Fg powder, a filler wad of either uncarded wool (traditional) or kapok up into the neck, then a hard wad under a grease-groove bullet seated to allow no significant airspace. I am awaiting a box of bullets today or tomorrow in fact in order to be able get my Francotte-pattern short Martini shooting. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill this is the re-stock thread for my Martini and yes the sight is one I made so that it can be used with no alteration of the Martini. http://castboolits.gunloads.co...artini-Henry-577-450 It the first post on the thread is a link to a 303 Martini Enfield I also did with a similar sight. | |||
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Read both threads. You have a right to be very proud if you wish to! There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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No need to be afraid of real black powder and no need for hot soapy water either; wash your brass with vinegar; I fill each case with it and it will eat all the fouling out. Clean your bore with water on your patches, then oil. It is not much harder than cleaning up with smokeless. It was the corrosive primers that ate up all the old guns; not black powder. | |||
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Thanks All, Very much appreciated here. I'll take on board your advice. I'm waiting ona set of dies this week and then I'm up and running. I'll try some trail boss out of interest and then explore the traditional black powder as I'm a bit of traditionalist anyway ! Thanks again Clive | |||
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What dpcd said. I truly believe real black in a breechloader cleans up easier than smokeless. I don't think I ever use more than 6 patches. DRSS: E. M. Reilley 500 BPE E. Goldmann in Erfurt, 11.15 X 60R Those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it | |||
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Ok you've convinced me I will give black powder a try, it's certainly more spectacular and should give the smell of 'Rourkes Drift' ! Regards Clive | |||
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Hi Bill, I've just received my Lee dies in 45/577 and am waiting for a friend to bring some 24 gauge Magtech brass back from your side of the pond. Do I have to order or make a die to swage the first stage of reducing the brass before using the Lee die set? So, after trimming, how did you swage them down? All help really appreciated here. Regards Clive | |||
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