All,

I've been neck sizing my 6.5 Creed brass and after about 3-4 dozen rounds the bodies are scratched badly. When I look at the die the inside of the die body is also scratched to the point I can feel it with a dental pick. I've sent them back to the manufacturer(name starts with an H) and they basically polish the dies and send them back to me even through I've asked for feedback. This has happened three times!

For the record the brass has been completely cleaned with new walnut media. I've wiped the brass before lubing. Used a new can of lube. Completely cleaned the die prior to use. Brass is new(er) Lapua and only reloaded once or twice.

What am I doing wrong? Is the die not tool steel or not hardened correctly?

Duke

3 xs back to H ? Something ain't right. Borrow a sizing die from a buddy and see what happens.

Call H. It's much more difficult to ignore a customer on the phone than to ignore his email or written inquiry.

3625 West Old Potash Hwy
Grand Island, NE 68803 USA
Phone: 1-800-338-3220
Phone: 1-308-382-1390
Fax: 1-308-382-5761

Business Hours

Monday - Thursday 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Central
Friday 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM Central

Get an new sizing die, any way you can. The one you have is not hardened. No die will scratch that badly, like yours has, unless you dump sand on the brass first.

I started wet tumbling when I started buying firearms that throw perfectly good brass away and makes you go look for it.

Meaning any case that touches the ground can pick up dirt and grit. And then the dirt and grit can become embedded in the die and scratch the brass.

Bottom line, even a bolt action or revolver cases can pick up dirt and grit. And then end up inside the die scratching your brass.

Make sure you clean your brass before sizing and wet tumbling will scrub the case clean.

And you can polish any die with a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop with J&B Bore paste, automotive polishing or rubbing compound, Mothers mag wheel polish, etc.

You can also disassemble the die and put the body of the die in a vibratory tumbler with treated walnut media. Then let it tumble overnight and have a die that looks brand new.

I'm wondering if you have a fat rifle chamber and a skinny neck sizing die, and why the case body is touching the body of the die.

I say this because the only neck sized cases that ever rub my die were fired in large diameter milsurp chambers.

NOTE, resizing dies are heat treated to make them harder. And polishing the die will not effect the die no matter how many times it is polished.

I've never had a scratched die in over 50 years of reloading for dozens of different calibers. And I'm not all that careful about pre-cleaning my brass, either.

You've got a bum die. "H" should supply you with a new one, but for the price of a die I'd go with someone's else product.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I've never had a scratched die in over 50 years of reloading for dozens of different calibers. And I'm not all that careful about pre-cleaning my brass, either.

You've got a bum die. "H" should supply you with a new one, but for the price of a die I'd go with someone's else product.

I wish I could agree with you, BUT there is a difference between dirt and grit being inside the die and scratching the case.

And I would never say the OP has a bum die when I do not have the die and cases in my hands. Anything else is a wild ass guess and assumption.

All available evidence points to a soft die; (conclusion based on what the OP said and nothing else, of course); I am sometimes not all that fastidious in cleaning brass (as the OP says he is) and I have never scratched a die. And I started reloading over 50 years ago.
Dies are not easy to scratch with any basic brass cleaning, meaning at least wiping off the dirt.
Send it to me and I will rockwell test it for you.
Or just buy a new one.

Oh I’ve talked to them at length. Can’t saw I’ve gotten any where. They have not done what I’ve asked.

I'd just buy a new die.
they can only polish it so much before it isn't a size die anymore.

think about how grit can get embedded in a die.
it doesn't just manifest itself there.
walnut would be considered a grit and it is fully capable of scratching brass that's how it cleans it.

It was a new die. It should never happen.

quote:

Originally posted by C. Duke:
It was a new die. It should never happen.

You're right, but shit happens...

My experience is a bit like Stonecreek's. It seems H has not heard the saying that the customer is always right.

As with the makers who just give you a new scope when the erector tube packs in, H should know that for a few dollars they could have turned your anger into admiration, so you could dine out on a good story.

I don't recall the whole deal right now as it's been over 20 years since it happened.
I scratched a Lee die with an unseen tiny chip of hard white shale on a case.

I felt it scraching on the out stroke and looked at it. Sure as hell, there it was. The next case in the die was scratched from the damage. I sent it back and they replaced it with a new die n/c.

Only trouble with Lee from here is it takes a minimum of two weeks to get anything returned. Being in the middle of a big batch of loading and only the one die it fouls up the program.

All my fault for missing that chip, but, it's sure easy to do. Half seems that was range pickup cases but, they'd been thru the shaker and it should have come off.

George

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
My experience is a bit like Stonecreek's. It seems H has not heard the saying that the customer is always right.

As with the makers who just give you a new scope when the erector tube packs in, H should know that for a few dollars they could have turned your anger into admiration, so you could dine out on a good story.

Yeah. And this story makes me appreciate RCBS all the more.

Suggestion:

Quit banging yer head against a wall. Pitch the "H" die and replace with "F" die. Chalk
it all up to experience.

I have both types. The "H" dies now never get used.

If it's a Hornady die, why not say "hornady die"? It may be an isolated event but I'm sure they understand it only takes a few readers deciding to buy another company's product before the replacement die they didn't send you is covered.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
. . . It may be an isolated event . . ..

dpcd suggested the die wasn't hardened. That seems to me to be the most reasonable explanation so far.

But I wonder how a single die could escape being hardened. I'd have thought that if something went askew in H's manufacturing process, many dies would be affected and they'd know about it.

And if they know about it, they should be expecting complaints and prepared (and willing) to ship their customers hardened replacements, not simply repolishing the dies and returning them (X3 in the OPs case!).

Well H called me and said nothing was wrong with the die but they admitted to not testing it for hardness

have several hornady sizing dies that the tool marks on the inside look like threads. Can't stand the way the decapping and expander adjustment works either. Like their seating die, but don't buy or use their sizing dies anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
Can't stand the way the decapping and expander adjustment works either. Like their seating die, but don't buy or use their sizing dies anymore.

Yep agree with that statement. Why buy a Hornady with that silly set up when you can have RCBS, Lyman or any other with positive thread adjustment and locking. Can't stand nonsense design and engineering.

I must be fairly lax in die care based on some post I read on this thread..but Ive never scratched a die body...I don't clean brass until it looks pretty bad whatever goes thru the die has to be harder than the die itself to scratch it, and that's no likely, I lube cases very lightly and sometimes the lube must have particles in it, but have not had such a problem.I and only devirve at the die body is just softer than what been put thru it..I use almost entirely RCBS,Redding or Forester..mostly RCBS by a bunch.

So in all fairness to H, dpcd volunteered to hardness test the die for me(which I asked h to do, but they didn't) and he found that the die was in spec for hardness. So what have I don't wrong, I don't know. I've dumped out my Lyman walnut media(again) and scrubbed clean everything I use including the tumbler so I'll see what happens on my next batch.

Since I work in the operational excellence field and have been in manufacturing for 25 years I would like to give manufacturers some insights into what I look for in a product as their customer. In this case I'm looking for help to solve my problem. I knew the die was to print. I didn't need someone to clean it up and tell me that. I needed an answer. I fully understand that it could have been my issue and I'm fine with that. But I needed the expert to help me with the solution. Anyone can provide the customer a product, good vendors provide solutions.

In this case I moved on to another die supplier and can't be happier. Don't give your customers a reason to look at someone else.

Duke

Get someone to put it in a lathe and polish the scratch out of it.
I've had it happen with a bunch of 8mm Rem mag brass. Nickel brass was sized then I noticed scratches on my brass brass. Unsightly but minor enough that it doesn't really matter imo. Polished the die afterwards so it doesn't continue.

One of the scratches in his die is quite deep and it won't polish out. I sized several of my clean brass in his die and they were scratched as well. Something got into the die that did some serious damage to it. I recommend throwing it in the trash.

Run a file on it. If the file cuts it, it isn't hardened.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Run a file on it. If the file cuts it, it isn't hardened.

dpcd tested it. It is hard.

Not worth the hassle. Just send it back to the
factory and let them either fix or replace it
and be done with it. Long time ago!

George

He did that; they lightly polished it and sent it back; but the scratches, particularly one, are too deep to polish out without altering the dimensions.
Yes, forget it and move on, which he has done.

Has the die had any Nickel plated brass run through it?

I just ruined a RCBS 38 Special die with Nickel plated brass. Some of the Nickel flaked off, scratched the die and imbedded into the die. It now scratches every round through it.

The only die issue I’ve had was a new die I failed to inspect and clean correctly.
First piece of brass run through looked as if the entire neck was scratched, so was the next.
I pulled the decapping assembly and found the entire neck section was filled with gritty polishing compound. It was even in the threads of the decapping stem.
After cleaning it out, not a mark has been left on a sized case.

Cheers.

Bottom line is what scratches a hardened die has to be harder than the die itself, end of story..figure that out and your there, or at least half way there..I would clean dies in a case polisher or anykind, just clean them in some solvent and dry them well..