I have been reading on another site that Hodgdon has purchased or is going to be the distributor of VV powders.

Is there any truth to this or more internet gossip.

Thanks

.

I don't know but if they do it would be a smart move and I'd be happy with it.

Although I've never had an exceptional load with VV powders lately, (too lazy anymore), I still like the powder for initial loads and new barrel break-in.

It burns exceptionally clean. Probably best out there for this.

Hodgdon has been making it for Winchester. They just use the same Hodgdon powders, pick out a different container design and slap a different label on it with a WW number. I don’t use WW powder so I didn’t know about this until a few months ago.

If it’s the same powder than it’s time for the deceit to stop. Do away with the WW powders.

I'm sure that Hodgdon wont get rid of the WW name. They can use it to sell their short batches and end runs of powder. As long as reloading manuals list the WW powders, people will buy it.

Ok, I'm confused. Even though I'm 70 years old I don't think my mind has taken a turn for the worse since I got up this morning.

Are we talking VihtaVuori Powders here or Winchester?

I'm confused also.

The relationship with Hodgdon and Winchester. I’ll sure the Hodgdon has a few other relations with other “powder makersâ€.

Stinger, ownsby, I’m confused now too. I read that as W for Winchester not VV (V V).

Go figure, I think I’ll have another beer and go watch TV for a while.

Well, I think like Doc said that V V or Vhita Vuori is very clean burning--if that's what he meant--I'm pretty sure it was--some W W powder is pretty dirty. I have several loads with
Vhita that are very good, excellent velocity and accuracy, so anything that made the V V powders more available would be good by me.

I absolutely read it as VV which is what was typed in the initial post. I thought everyone knew VV was Vihtavuori.

It clearly looks like 2 capital Vs to me and not a capital W or even WW for winchester.

Why Hodgdon would even consider Winchester powder would be beyond me. VV I can understand but not Winchester.

quote:

Originally posted by STINGER:
Ok, I'm confused. Even though I'm 70 years old I don't think my mind has taken a turn for the worse since I got up this morning.

Are we talking VihtaVuori Powders here or Winchester?

VihtaVuori VV

Steve

I haven't heard this rumor anywhere. I think someone is blowing smoke.As you know Hodgdon does not produce but is a distributor for Winchester powders.

It makes no sense to me if VihtaVuori would split up with Norma and Lapua. V-V has been producing powders since the early 1900's.

On the other hand maybe they are not satisfied with Kaltrone Pettibone as their distributor.

As for Hodgdons, as far as I know, or have been told, they have never produced the first grain of their own powder yet. The have it produced according to their specifications. they get their powders from Sweden, the Czech Republic, Australia and God knows where else. The first powder they ever sold to my knowledge was H-4831 which was left from WW2.

The only true powder plant left in the USA is in Florida.

I'l do some further checking on this and keep in touch.

Best wishes, Bill

If you look at the Hodgdon website, it clearly says "Winchester" powders, and no mention of Vihtavouri. I believe that Hodgdon only sells their own brands (where ever that comes from) and IMR and Winchester.

Steve4102,
Time to step up.
I made the post you are talking about regarding Hodgdon looking at becoming distributor for VihtaVuori powders. I saw this information on another reloading site post announcing the new Hodgdon Data center and I cut and pasted it on Hunting Nuts site. I will have to go back and find the original post and see if there is any more information about it. It appears this may be a hoax because you guys on AR are the best informed and would know about it. I make many forums so it may take some time to find it again. Sound like I need to watch what I run across and cut and paste. I am not saying it is not true but you guys would know if anybody did! Thanks and will post what I find about this. James

PS If you have not seen it go take a look at there data center at:
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Well, with a quick phone call, it happens to be true.

I just hung up with Chris at Hodgdon, and he confirmed that they are indeed a DISTRIBUTOR for VV powder.

They have nothing to do with data, load development, customer service. You still have to contact Lapua and/or VV for that.

Thanks,
Just never know about what you see on net!!
James

Hodgdon has traditionally been a powder marketer, not manufacturer. This appears to have changed recently with Hodgdon's acquisition of the IMR Powder Company, which has production facilities in Canada. Prior to that, Hodgdon's only manufacturing involvement that I'm aware of was as a part owner of the Pyrodex facility.

In addition to marketing its own "brand" of powders, all of which are manufactured by some other company, Hodgdon is also a distributor for some other "brands" of powders (WW, and now, according to recent information, Vhita Vouri).

Both "Hodgdon" and "Winchester" brands of "sperical" and "ball" powders are manufactured by the former Olin facility in St. Marks, Florida. Many of their powders (WW748/BL-C2; WW-760/H414) are the same spec powder. Other Hodgdon-branded powders are made by ADI in Australia, and have been manufactured in the past in places like Scotland. Of course, Hodgdon came to fame as a marketer of U.S. military surplus powders.

The fact that Hodgdon is now in a position to control such a large percentage of the U.S. powder market is troubling from a consumer's point of view. Hopefully, Alliant and marketers like Western Powders and Accurate will provide enough competition to keep Hodgdon from gouging consumers on pricing. But I think it is fair to say that the fewer powder suppliers there are, the relatively higher powder prices will be.

They didn't buy Expoex(sp) from SMC-Lavalin.IMR only was a marketer,too.

Many of the new plastic bottles of Reloader powders have "made in Sweeden" on the label. Is V V not located in Sweeden? Is Hodgdon not the distriutor for the Reloader powders also.

LongShot

quote:

Originally posted by Longshot:
Many of the new plastic bottles of Reloader powders have "made in Sweeden" on the label. Is V V not located in Sweeden? Is Hodgdon not the distriutor for the Reloader powders also.

LongShot

Close, but Vihtavuori is made in Finland, not Sweden. Reloder powders are distributed by Alliant, which I don't believe has been taken over by Hodgdon, at least not yet....

Norma apparently supplies the RL rifle powders 1:1 to Alliant. Do a search here and fou'll find the details, if I remember it right RL19 is Norma 204 for example.

If it's made in Sweden it's probably Norma.

quote:

Originally posted by STINGER:
Steve

I haven't heard this rumor anywhere. I think someone is blowing smoke.As you know Hodgdon does not produce but is a distributor for Winchester powders.

It makes no sense to me if VihtaVuori would split up with Norma and Lapua. V-V has been producing powders since the early 1900's.

On the other hand maybe they are not satisfied with Kaltrone Pettibone as their distributor.

As for Hodgdons, as far as I know, or have been told, they have never produced the first grain of their own powder yet. The have it produced according to their specifications. they get their powders from Sweden, the Czech Republic, Australia and God knows where else. The first powder they ever sold to my knowledge was H-4831 which was left from WW2.

The only true powder plant left in the USA is in Florida.

I'l do some further checking on this and keep in touch.

Best wishes, Bill

I thought the same thing too. But Hodgdon does own IMR now, don't they? IMR still makes powders - in Canada, I believe??

Are ANY smokeless small-arms powders still being MADE in the USA? If not, I think that fact would suggest a serious strategic vulnerability you don't hear much about!

(The first powder I bought from Hodgdon was surplus WWII IMR 4895. Bought it around 1954 or so. It came in a brown paper lunch bag, at, I believe $0.95 per pound - or less. They weren't even packaging the stuff in canisters yet.)

"Close, but Vihtavuori is made in Finland, not Sweden. Reloder powders are distributed by Alliant, which I don't believe has been taken over by Hodgdon, at least not yet...."

This is real interesting, because at the turn of the 20th Century, DuPont owned just about ALL smokeless powder manufacturing operations in the U.S. Soon after that, legal action was taken against DuPont by the Federal Government under the Sherman Antitrust Act, and DuPont was forced to divest itself of about half of the powder-making capacity it had. The result was the Hercules Powder Company, which took over production of a number of powders that DuPont had been making. Some of these "Hercules" powders are still being made today, such as Bullseye and Unique! Now Hodgsdon seems to be re-acquiring at least distribution rights for the powders once owned by DuPont before the breakup. I wonder if history will repeat itself here 100 years later??

This thread on benchrest.com mentions a possible distribution of VV powders by Hodgdon - apparently in parallel to the regular VV distributor "Kaltron Pettibone".

True or not - I haven't got a clue...

Btw, Norma do not make their own powders. All (or most?) of the Norma powders, as well as the equivalent powders distributed by Alliant and RWS, are manufactured by Bofors in Sweden.

- mike

El Deguello and Stone Creek have it correct !.

Many Many Moons back I worked for Hercules Powder as well as Dupont because they were at one time the same company !. Now days stay tuned because for tax liability or marital status anything can change !. Where does Western Powder acquire their powders from ?. Hodgdons is the big distributor now days for just about everybodys powders , not or ever were producers . I also bought powder from H in large surplus Drums way way back H870 was WW11 ball surplus also .

Memories Memories , What were we talking about ?. Kidding !!
The boss has dinner ready Oh well ...

Slightly OT,

The Norma/Reloader powders are made by Bofors in Sweden.

LD

I'm glad to hear Hodgdon is distributing VV. Not good from an antitrust point of view, but reassuring from a not having an interuption in availability point of view.

Ok but who or where does Western Powder obtain there commercial powers ??. Does anyone know or really care ?. Does hold into the wind apply in gale force strength ? If I aim around Palm Springs today I might just hit Orange County!. Dam Santa Ana's cutting in to my range time !!!!!.



The inevitable failure of a democratic society begins when the voice of the minority are allowed to be heard !. CRYBABY

It would be worth establishing a synopsis of the different trademarks under which (almost) identical powders are marketed. This would make it easier to compare different load manuals, knowing e.g. that Varget is nothing else but AR 2208. Shall we start a new thread?

Quote:
The only true powder plant left in the USA is in Florida.

Alliant Powder has a plant in Radford VA. Yes they import most Reloder powder however most pistol/shotgun powder(i.e. American Select, Unique, Bullseye) is produced here. I live 30 min. from the plant and know people who work there.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

(The first powder I bought from Hodgdon was surplus WWII IMR 4895. Bought it around 1954 or so. It came in a brown paper lunch bag, at, I believe $0.95 per pound - or less. They weren't even packaging the stuff in canisters yet.)

I have one of their old load books that offers IMR4895 for 10 cents/ pound in quantities.