Perhaps someone can help me out here:

I've been reading about annealing cases (especially when resizing and so forth) to remove the effects of work-hardenening on the brass.

However, most of the books I've read describe the annealing process as heating up the "bullet end" of the empty casing and then dropping it into a pan of water when the proper temperature is reached. This is *NOT* annealing! True annealing is heating the metal up to a certain temperature, and then letting it cool SLOWLY back down to room temperature. Dropping the casing into water is a very FAST cooling of the case. In fact, I would say that the method I just described is TEMPERING the case mouth, not annealing it.

If anyone could enlighten me more about this, I'd appreciate it!

shiflan

I have annealed brass in the past for my 45-120 sharps. One lot of brass I had was very brittle & upon sizing & firing, would often split the case mouth.
I stand cases in about 1" of water, to protect the web area, & then heat the necks/mouths to a dark "cherry" color & let stand to cool. I haven't had a problem asince. Your right, quenching in water would not be annealing.

shiflan,

I do believe that non-ferrous metals are annealed when they are quenched in water. I made a loop that fits on my hand-held torch and it puts flames around the entire neck area at one time. I do this in a slightly dark room so I can see the case start to turn cherry color. I then drop it into water. If I let it get too red and drop it in water, the neck becomes so soft that I can squeeze it completely shut using only my fingers! I think that NON-FERROUS is the reason for the water-quenching...BCB

I anneal my fireformed wildcates after the second firing. I use a propane torch and hold the brass in my fingers. My fingers tell me when it is hot enough.
I spin the brass in the flame and it will turn a cherry red. I then keep a 5 gallon bucket of water under me and drop them in the bucket.

Before you do this size and trim the cases as they get quite soft after they cool.

I find that in the Ackley Improved cases the life is greatly increased if you anneal after fireforming.

Good Hunting
Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

Shiflan,
You are correct. Rapid quenching of a metal alloy is the tempering of the material in question. Annealing is the heating of the alloy to a specific temperature, maintaining the temperature for a specific amount of time, then allowing the material to cool at a controlled rate. In engineering speak this is a three step process, rcovery, recrystalization, and grain growth. Anyway, the companies that manufacture the brass for us do this in sophisticated furnaces. Us handloaders are somewhat limited to how precise we can get. The best method I know is that which Dr. Howell explains in his book, Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges. A book any advanced handloader should have on their bench. I think that the practice of droping the heated cases into water stems from the need to prevent the heat from softening the case head, which we all know will render a case useless. I have used the drop in the water method as well as the stand in the pan of water method. I did not find any discerable difference between the two. Although I cannot agree with the practice of holding the case head in your hand and or heating the case-mouth until it glows. Both are way too unscientific in my opinion. I do know for a fact that if a metal glows it is far beyond the point of proper annealing temperature and ends up far to soft to perform its intended function.

David - Correct - You can overheat the case to the point where you have over-soften the neck and lose neck tension. This is just as bad as a work-hardened case. The proper temperature to anneal brass is 660 to 665 degrees Fahrenheit (or 365 degrees Celsius for you European types). The brass will begin to turn a light blue and developed a shine. If in doubt, use a temp stick or crayon. The brass must be quenched immediately - you do not want the high heat to travel past the neck. Heat fast and cool fast.

According to �Custom Cartridges� - �If the brass develops a cherry red color, you are over heating the brass.�

How about Hornadies new annealing kit?? I believe it was discussed in last months SHOOTING TIMES by Rick Jamison.

Mike

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Victory through superior firepower!

I'm Not sure that heating the brass to cherry red is what you want. I think that is to hot. Nonte in his book "The home guide to Cartridge Conversions" answers the question of "How hot-that's the problem. if you've been told to heat the brass red, you'll do cases more harm then good, merely burn the brass. As the brass heats, it will first turn brownish then blue. A few seconds after the flame is applied, you'll see the first color appear and move rapidly from neck to shoulder. When the blue advances to the junction of shoulder and body dunk the case quick. It will be amply soft, yet still hard enough to avoid collapsing during resizing."
That last sentence has something to think about. We want the brass to maintain its ductility and yet have the strength to be able to with stand the pressures of the loading dies.

Have not received it yet, but I just ordered and annealing fixture which is designed to be used on a stove top. A burner set on HIGH is supposed to generate enough heat for the annealing process.

It's a steel plate with caliber sized nipples/nubs that you place your cartridges on. Supposedly you can anneal several cases at once at around 10 second intervals (there's either 10 or 12 nubs on the plate). When combined with a Tempilstick Crayon, temperature control ought to be a snap. I will post my findings after I receive and try it out.

Martindog

[This message has been edited by Martindog (edited 09-02-2001).]