Looking for help with a new cartridge. Picked up a nice ruger 77MK2 in .280. I loaded up Some sierra gamekings 140s
Over RL 19 and I am going to try some RL22 under the Nosler 140 grain accubond. Also do you think its worth while to have a 22 inch barrel rchamberd to 280 AI 40 degree shoulder? thanks Any recipies welcome, bullet weights through 160...tj3006

To me there has always been a question as to the claims of higher velocity on the 280AI equaling the 7mag. I had a 7x57AI and on the light bullets I was equal but on the 160gr was about 50fps less and 175gr alittle over 100fps less and i was using 10gr of powder less. I really don't think you would gain very much might even be alittle over case capacity on the AI but that might help if using the swift or interbond bullets. Hope that may help. Now before anyone thinks I don't like the 280 I've got a 700bdl in 7mm express.

Hey TJ,
Try Viht N160. It shoots real good in my 280.Start out 50.0 Grns. and work up with a 140. Max is 54.0 Grns.
Deano

H4831sc and 150gr pills!!!! My 280AI shoots that and RL22 with excellent results. The 280 will no doubt also make use of the same powders.

I have used the 280 Remington quite a bit. It is definately a favorite of mine. IMR 4350 and H4831sc have given me fantastic results using both 140gr Nosler ballistic tips and 140 or 150 gr partitions. The best of the bunch IMO is IMR 4350 behind the 140gr partition at just over 3000fps in a 22" barrel.

Chuck

P.S. Leave the chamber alone.

I had a 280 Rem at one time and currently have a 280 Ackley. Both cartridges are great, but I think I favor the Ackley. RL22 works great in both with 140's. I get 3175 (chronographed) out of my Ackley with 140 grain coated bullets.

.280 and .280 AI are both excellent calibers. Just my opinion but I don't think your trophy will be any more dead with one over the other. You'll be pleased with whichever you decide to go with. However, you may have a little more work with fireforming brass for the AI.

I would make a small suggestion though, if you do go with the AI, go ahead and use a 25-26" barrel. I have found that a 25.5" barrel seems to be a 'sweet' length for the 270 and 280. I CANNOT explain it. It's like taking a math course you just don't get. Accept it as the truth and go on. But I have had the best results trying all types of barrel lengths in those calibers. And for as much range time as I put in, I found it so easy to work up loads with that barrel length. I used to get one great group out of 4-8 different loads before. Now I usually have a tack driver in the first couple of tries, if not every one! (1" and less, is usually a decent load, tack driver to me is 1/2" or less with a hunting gun). Good Luck.

The most accurate factory rifle I've ever owned (which is many...), or even fired for that matter, is a 700 BDL in 280 Rem, 22" barrel.

Federal 150 classic FACTORY load gives honest 3-shot 0.25 MOA, sometimes a bit better even. I shot one box, then went back to the store and bought every box they had...

Now I have the daunting task of working up some "good" loads.

Try H4831sc and leave the chamber alone. JMO...

Good luck.

I have a lt.wt. M70 w/ a 23"bbl. & really love this round. I prefer 160gr bullets as I usually hunt deer/elk comb. For a strictly deer/antelope load it's hard to beat any of the good 140-150gr bullets. My best loads accuracy vs. vel. use IMR4831 or H4831 under 140-150gr bullets, start @ 55gr & work up, good for 3000fps+. I use IMR7828 under 160gr bullets, again start @ 55gr & work up, you'll get about 2850fps. As far as the AI, if you want to mess w/ the Imp. round go for it. It's probably good for 75fps increase over the std. .280 but @ the expense of the rechambering & new dies. If I were having one rebarreled then I would go for it otherwise I would just stay w/ what you've got.

tj I have loaded the rem. 280 for many years, and really loved it. It was a rem. mountain rifel. I was loading RL-19 at 57.0 grains with wlr primer. and made some pretty long shots. But now i shoot a 7MM-08 rem. with 24 in. barrel. with RL-15 and get the same vel. and less recoil. both loads was shoot with 140 grain sierra B.T. BUT the .280 shines with the heaver bullets. say for elk.

Many feel as do I that the .280 is one of the best balanced cartridges of all time. Sadly it fell between the .270 and the 06 and had to struggle with the following that each had. The improved versions have little to offer that actually increase its capability.There isn't anything the improved will do that the .280 won't do. Now if you want another toy and are willing to foot the bill I can understand that. roger

Yup. I'd leave it as-is, unless you just want to experiment. For the cost of the work and dies, you might as well just buy a take-off in 7mm Rem and open the boltface and get some real "improvement.
I don't own one, but on paper, I'd throw in my vote for the 280 as all-time best one-gun round for a handloader. Much as I love the '06, it basically does the same with better SD. (I know, this could be - and has been - argued ad nauseum.)
Leave as-is and shoot the b'jeezus out of it.

I would listen to what Doc says. Both are great, and it all depends on what you want out of the rifle. If you just want a hunting rifle, then if it shoots around 1" 3 shot groups at 100 yards it is good enough. My most finicky 270 is a ruger 77 MKII. It shoots 1" groups with the best load, and I look forward to the day my wife lets me rebuild the thing (I've already done 1 this year so I can't get away with another one), and it will be rebarrelled to either the 280 or 280 AI, I'm not sure and I don't know if it matters. If you want something a little different (and I think I do), I'd go with the AI: looks cool and you squeeze a bit more velocity out of it. A longer custom barrel will help also. I love a very accurate rifle so for me, if I can't break 1" groups average, I'm going to rebuild (rebuilding with barrles like shilen select has worked for me every time). It is more practical to go with the standard 280 though and you won't have to worry about feeding problems.

" If you want something a little different (and I think I do), I'd go with the AI: looks cool and you squeeze a bit more accuracy out of it. "

Shilen, I gotta ask: Why would you exspect more accuracy out of the Improved? roger

>Why would you exspect more accuracy out of the Improved?

That's a good question, wondered that myself. Improved rounds, Ackley or otherwise, can be expected to provide a significant velocity increase (except in the case of the .35 Whelen AI) and POSSIBLY other advantages (better headspacing) or disadvantages (less smooth feeding), but an accuracy gain isn't something one should expect.

I've also always wondered about the impact of the accuracy aspects of a particular cartridge DESIGN. Even the .30-30 Winchester can be a tack-driver with the right components and in the right gun. When one looks at the prolethera of cartridge shapes and designs that are highly-accurate, doesn't it seem that excelling in that department has a lot more to do with powder, charge, bullet, etc. for a particular gun than the shape characteristics of the round? If one rebored the same gun to various chamber shapes, I suspect each could be re-tuned to the same accuracy by just varying load parameters (and even that might be unnecessary in some cases, no pun intended).

Some 7mm eye candy:
.280 Remington - http://ammoguide.com/?catid=104


BTW, if anyone can point me to a case diagram of the .280 AI, I'd love to get it into AmmoGuide. Or, a .280AI lover can enter the case dimensions themselves at http://ammoguide.com/runcreator.html (if you hand-measure a case for dimensions, please note such)

Mike

Hey guys, didn't mean to say accuracy, ONLY velocity. Squeeze a little more velocity, that's it.

Theoretically a sharper shoulder will give you a more uniform fit in the chamber than a long sloping shoulder. So accuracy can be better w/ an AI version of a cart.

>Hey guys, didn't mean to say accuracy, ONLY velocity.

Of course, we're probably only a post or two away from someone who actually rebored his 7mm Whatever into a 7mm Whatever AI and started getting half the group size. And I'll not doubt him.

I try to remember that for every rule of thumb there's a middle finger looking right back at you.

Mike

Yah, I have heard the rule of thumb about accuracy improvement when going to the AI, but I don't have proof as of yet. I hope I can prove it in a year or so, but even then it would take a really bad rebarreling job for any new chamber to not be more accurate than my Ruger 77 MKII .270 right now. I don't know. It has a paddle boat stock, and I could watch the groups shrink and go huge just by tightenning the ccrews at the fore end, but the screws would never stay in one place. At one time I would get 3/4 inch groups regularly, but the screws would move some and the groups would open up so I decided to float the barrel to remove that variable. Now it just shoots 1" groups with the best load on a regular basis. Well, at least it is consistant I guess, but it will have a new barrel put on it (most likely chambered in 280 AI, contemplating 6.5-284 though).

I have a .280 AI. Nice round, but not worth the extra work over a regular .280 Rem, IMHO. If you want a big case, get a big case, don't try to stretch a "small" case. The regular .280 is just about perfect as it is, nice balanced cartridge. The (potential) extra 100 fps mean squat all in the field. If the .280 shoots well, I'd just leave it alone and be happy.
- mike

Fred!I most humbly disagree.Shorter necks even tend to allow greater bullet run out by far. This is not conducive to better accuracy: Just the opposite.However, a tight throat may and does correct for some of that.The history of the short neck did not involve any endeavor for accuracy. Check out the history of the .300 Savage. Needed a shorter cartridge to function in the mod. 99. roger

I anticipate better accuracy because it usually involves a barrel change! Ah well, I know that's not how it's 'sposed to work...

My limited experience with them leads me to believe that the AI's generally shoot with lower ES but again, new barrels so who knows. More velocity, sure. 28" barrel for a 7x57 AI makes life real tough on a 7mm Rem in the velocity dept BTW. I don't like reaming an existing barrel simply because few 'smiths can give you a square chamber like that, assuming it was square in the first place. That's a bold assumption IMO. New chambers means fitted necks, means less brass working, less BS in the reloading cycle and being able to use good brass longer. So to me, it is a plus in the accuracy dept. too.

Whoever it was looking for a diagram of the .280 AI and most of the rest of them out there, get a copy of Ken Howell's, "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges". Steal, beg, borrow, humiliate yourself if you have to.

Bart, is thw neck shorter on most AIs? I don't think so, but I would agree that short necks are more difficult.

The neck lengths on the PO improved cats were intended to be the same basic lengths as the parant cartridges allowing you if you chose to fire the std. in the improved chambers.At times there was a little crush at the shoulder to neck junction. If this took anything away from the neck length it was very little. roger